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  #31  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:42 PM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur View Post
Let me pose the question a bit differently...

Would you let a 2 year old walk barefoot on a lawn that was just fertilized using granular fertilizer?
Absolutely. 2 of my 3 were deficient in N-P-K anyway.
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  #32  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:59 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur View Post
Let me pose the question a bit differently...

Would you let a 2 year old walk barefoot on a lawn that was just fertilized using granular fertilizer?
If it's straight fert, yes to both synthetic and organic.
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  #33  
Old 08-24-2013, 03:52 AM
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mikesturf mikesturf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur View Post
Let me pose the question a bit differently...

Would you let a 2 year old walk barefoot on a lawn that was just fertilized using granular fertilizer?

Sure, why not?


Most fertilizers are slow release, lasting 60 days or more. So I shouldn't let my kids go on the lawn for 2 months? Or all year if I fertilize every 60 days?
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2013, 09:23 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Come now, Kiril. If you have an MSDS for seawater, please distribute. But, the point in question is not seawater -- its fertilizer vs table salt. You said that one merely had to pull a couple of MSDS to demonstrate that GD's claim (that fertilizer was no more harmful than table salt) was not true.

I pulled a couple of MSDS and found that it was in fact true: table salt is more toxic than urea fertilizer.

If you have evidence otherwise, please post it here.

If you don't have that evidence, you should post an apology.
Pay attention skip, I know it is hard for you to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Chemical N, P and K is no more harmful than table salt. People do swim in the ocean, right?
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2013, 09:45 AM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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You suggested that GD could find his answer with a couple of MSDS. So, where is the MSDS for seawater?

Could you not pay attention to the part where GD said "Chemical N, P and K is no more harmful than table salt"?

There are two separate parts here: 1) Chemical NPK is no more harmful than table salt and 2) Do people swim in the ocean

You said that GD was wrong and that a couple of MSDS would reveal that he was wrong.

I pulled the MSDS and showed that GD was right that chemical ferts are less harmful than table salt. I assume that people swim in the ocean, but I haven't checked today.

But, to help me and others pay attention, where is this MSDS for seawater that you said would help us to know if GD was right?
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2013, 10:48 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
You suggested that GD could find his answer with a couple of MSDS. So, where is the MSDS for seawater?
You don't need a MSDS for seawater skippy, simply a MSDS for NaCl and a percentage of NaCl in seawater. Certainly a person with your supposed credentials understands this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Could you not pay attention to the part where GD said "Chemical N, P and K is no more harmful than table salt"?

There are two separate parts here: 1) Chemical NPK is no more harmful than table salt and 2) Do people swim in the ocean

You said that GD was wrong and that a couple of MSDS would reveal that he was wrong.

I pulled the MSDS and showed that GD was right that chemical ferts are less harmful than table salt. I assume that people swim in the ocean, but I haven't checked today.
You used LD50 values for urea alone. I wasn't aware urea comprises all N-P-K fertilizers available on the market. Odd, but since you insist let's pull some MSDS's of a very common compounds and fertilizers used.

Ammonium Sulfate

http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSD...H4%292SO4.html
CAS# 7783-20-2:
Oral, mouse: LD50 = 640 mg/kg;
Oral, mouse: LD50 = 4280 mg/kg;
Oral, rat: LD50 = 2840 mg/kg;
Oral, rat: LD50 = 4540 mg/kg;
Or how about an actual fertilizer, Urea Ammonium Sulfate.

http://www.agriumwholesale.com/inclu...340000MSDS.pdf
Ammonium Thiosulfate Solution TFI Product Testing Program Results:
Acute oral toxicity, LD50: 1,950-2,890 mg/kg (rat, mouse)
Hmmm, looks like that is more toxic than NaCl.

How about Best Iron Supreme?

http://msds.simplot.com/datasheets/74368.pdf
Monoammonium Phosphate: > 2,000 mg/kg
Ammonium Sulfate: 640-4,250 mg/kg
Potassium Chloride: 1,500-2,600 mg/kg
Urea: 14,300 mg/kg
Again, odd. Three of the four listed ingredients are more toxic than NaCl.

How about Best NitreX

http://msds.simplot.com/datasheets/765512.pdf
Ammonium Nitrate: 2217 mg/kg
Monoammonium Phosphate: > 2,000 mg/kg
Ammonium Sulfate: 640-4,250 mg/kg
Potassium Sulfate: 6,600 mg/kg
Manganese Oxysulfate: 2150 mg/kg
Wow, even more odd. Four of the five ingredients are more toxic that NaCl.

Isn't that just damned inconvenient, heh skip? Shall we continue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
But, to help me and others pay attention, where is this MSDS for seawater that you said would help us to know if GD was right?
I never said I had a MSDS for seawater, did I skip? Perhaps you would care to show me where I did say that.

Last edited by Kiril; 08-24-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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  #37  
Old 08-24-2013, 10:59 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Another discussion down the drain.
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  #38  
Old 08-24-2013, 11:27 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Another discussion down the drain.
I'm surprised to hear you say that...

But I agree with your earlier comment that synfert or organic fert is safe for barefoot kids... even if the granules get stuck between their toes for a while or if their feet get black from compost or smell like fish,,, I can't see that it is as much a hazard as breathing air at the local hospital...
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  #39  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:26 AM
Victorsaur Victorsaur is offline
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Kiril, even if your argument is correct in the sense that some fertilizers are more harmful than table salt it doesn't change the fact that the purpose behind your whole argument has one glaring flaw. I have never heard of an incident where a child was hospitalized due to ingesting fertilizer not infused with pesticides. I seriously doubt that any child would lay on the grass and search for fertilizer hidden between the blades so that they could lick it. Children have a strong sense of taste so after tasting the first few bits they would spit it out anyway. Any human being with a half decent amount of common sense can deduct this without doing any research, yet you want to nitpick at a comment where somebody said that fertilizer is no more harmful than table salt, which makes sense given that table salt is an every day palatable household commodity that is regularly eaten.

I find it interesting that everybody on this forum including phasthound who specifically works with fertilizers etc. states that they would allow their child to play in a recently fertilized yard yet you are the only one who is trying to make an argument out of this. This is a pattern that happens consistently with your posts and it is pretty clear to me that you are not really concerned with practical advice and application. You are only here to win arguments. I can assure you that as many times you have accused others of being misleading your posts detract more from the conversation than any others. You ruin threads because you enter them without education being your primary objective. This is so obvious given how you talk in a consistently insulting manner calling respectable member "Skippy" and saying things like "come now". I'm calling you out not only for this thread but for multiple threads in which you have engaged. Frankly, we all have better things to do than argue with your spreadsheet based not applicable arguments.
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  #40  
Old 08-26-2013, 10:24 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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And the unsubstantiated flaming goes on, which is amusing given your accusations. The only people who are trying to make an argument are people who feel it necessary to continue to respond to, and take issue with, my original simple post to GD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Come now GD. One has to merely pull a couple of MSDS's to demonstrate this is not true.
I expect more from GD because he is more intelligent than that comment. He is also one of the few people I respect on this side of the forum, and quite frankly comments like that are below him IMO.

So once again we find you putting words in my mouth and condemning my posts concerning factual information while at the very same time you go after me on a personal level, and have done so on more than one occasion. Your post contributes to this thread how? How very hypocritical of you ..... again.

I also haven't heard of anyone getting sick from picking up and eating an applied compost, or any of the other plethora of organic type ferts., yet people here are claiming they are more dangerous than synthetic ferts. Does that mean it hasn't happened just because I haven't heard about it? Absolutely not, and the same can be said for synthetic ferts and your "claims". So tell me Vic, what does your common sense tell you about that? How "applicable" is that?
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