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  #11  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:36 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by White Gardens View Post
Natural grasses of course tend to to better.

Just seems to me that most modern blends aren't designed to handle drought conditions in sand. But maybe, a good Fescue would do the trick.

It can be done, I would just think it would take a few years of establishment and babysitting to get it to a sustainable state.



...........
The newer versions of KBG and/or Ryegrass can be just as strong and resilient as June grass if NOT babied... correct cultural practices for establishing strong healthy turf requires timing,,, of fertilizer and timing,,, of leaving it alone...

I don't know if you've ever pastured cattle on your farm,,, but it is easy for me to understand how the pasture would decline if it were treated like city folk treat their lawns...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2013, 06:13 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Gardens View Post
The one thing we are missing here is the type of grass the OP intends to use.

If he's in British Columbia, I'm going out on a limb to say it will be a northern grass. Northern grasses don't like sand as much as southern grasses do. Irrigation would be a must in the dry parts of the summer to keep it from frying.

But I do agree with the fact that grass can grow in the sand. Zoysia and Bermuda does extremely well. Just got done working on a beach project where the previous owner had installed zoysia. We had to rip out sections of it to install a barrier between the turf and the beach.

Even in our drought the grass was still extremely green and lush, and the root system whent down 6" or more.


.....
My point exactly. I curse the well meaning people that think grass needs "topsoil" to grow so they put 4 or so inches of red clay on top of sand. Sand is normally found in beachfront areas at or below sea level. The salt contaminates the clay and then you have real problems. In sand, any salts are quickly leached through and the sand does not turn into a sticky, compacted, poorly drained mess.

I have seen bermuda and zoysia root systems go almost 12" deep in sand. In clay, the roots stop at around 2-3". Which makes me wonder why someone would want to take a sand base and throw 4 or more inches of "topsoil" on it.
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:01 PM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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I had to laugh at your 4" of "topsoil." In Michigan, at least in this corner, EVERYBODY wants "some black dirt." Apparently it is the #*&@$ answer to every lawn concern anyone could ever have. Just put it down at 2"-4" and repeat next spring. I have seen everything from used diapers to shredded kitchen garbage bags in this stuff in people's yards.
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:10 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Glad you can laugh. Diapers? Kitchen trash bags? Ewwwww!. There are only one or two landscapers and I refer to them as such not in quotations as I normally do that will not use "topsoil" on their jobs. They are in agreement with what I believe. The mention of red clay will cause one of them to resort to language that would make a sailor blush. The other makes a sand rootzone for turf. He says you cannot grade mud.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:32 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Glad you can laugh. Diapers? Kitchen trash bags? Ewwwww!. There are only one or two landscapers and I refer to them as such not in quotations as I normally do that will not use "topsoil" on their jobs. They are in agreement with what I believe. The mention of red clay will cause one of them to resort to language that would make a sailor blush. The other makes a sand rootzone for turf. He says you cannot grade mud.
That is why I support my local construction yard in their intelligent mixtures of loam,,, to provide the alternative to the "Red Clay Idiots"...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:36 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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There is no such thing as loam here. Therefore, the smart thing to do is not to layer or transpose sand to clay and never put clay on top of sand. For the people that argue, there is my white shirt test. If their topsoil leaves a rust stain on my Lands End Oxford, it is red clay.
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:49 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
There is no such thing as loam here. Therefore, the smart thing to do is not to layer or transpose sand to clay and never put clay on top of sand. For the people that argue, there is my white shirt test. If their topsoil leaves a rust stain on my Lands End Oxford, it is red clay.
Have you ever considered tilling or multi-pass aerations on these red clay lawns???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:59 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Does not work. What does work is correction of soil chemistry. Red clay that is inland is very easy to deal with. Just correct pH, bases, and NPK. Clay that has been put where it does not belong is a different story. Soil has to be acidified and sodium needs to be removed. A third wrinkle is added when coral is put where it does not belong inland and red clay layered on top of it. Treatment is similar to clay placed on beachfront properties. That is why I insist on a soil test. Red clay might be acidic or it might be full of salt and alkaline.
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  #19  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:13 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Does not work. What does work is correction of soil chemistry. Red clay that is inland is very easy to deal with. Just correct pH, bases, and NPK. Clay that has been put where it does not belong is a different story. Soil has to be acidified and sodium needs to be removed. A third wrinkle is added when coral is put where it does not belong inland and red clay layered on top of it. Treatment is similar to clay placed on beachfront properties. That is why I insist on a soil test. Red clay might be acidic or it might be full of salt and alkaline.
See,,, we don't have any of that hassle... KGB, P. Ryegrass , and Fescue species are a perfect fit for our climate and soils... In fact the connection is so perfect that many times you drive around Wisco and the ditch grasses look so much better than the "Manicured Lawns"...
Hang in there,,, We're all rooting for you,,, even if in Hawaii...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:16 PM
Will P.C. Will P.C. is online now
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I have seen bermuda take seed naturally in giant piles on sand on pavement and establish a hell of a root system.

Golf course green's are grown on sterile and well drained sand medium.
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