Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 09-24-2013, 01:30 PM
Victorsaur Victorsaur is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by recycledsole View Post
Here is a picture of the lawn
its on a steep hill, in the city, with a lot of shade
I may be wrong but it sure looks like you have some brown patch going on in that photo. Above advice is good, although if you look hard enough it IS possible to get great results organically. Again, I would consult phasthound for advice. Stick to your guns and don't give in to the non organic way.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-24-2013, 07:08 PM
BlazersandWildcats2009's Avatar
BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorsaur View Post
I may be wrong but it sure looks like you have some brown patch going on in that photo. Above advice is good, although if you look hard enough it IS possible to get great results organically. Again, I would consult phasthound for advice. Stick to your guns and don't give in to the non organic way.
I was kind of riding the fence, but I agree if you think it's best or you and your community stick to it. I'll say a prayer for you and hope things work out. (I pray about my lawn) that's how much of a passion I have or a beautiful lawn. There are many great organic products out there, many just as we stated earlier, just do your homework and stay away from the gimmicks. I find the Ag center and university studies to be the best to follow, rather than sales advertisements on the products websites.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:58 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazersandWildcats2009 View Post
... There are many great organic products out there, many just as we stated earlier, just do your homework and stay away from the gimmicks. I find the Ag center and university studies to be the best to follow, rather than sales advertisements on the products websites.
Define "great organic products"... What makes them great? what is their Mode of Operation(MO)?? will it benefit SOM, CEC, moisture/air ratio or what other benefit???
Improper use of anything renders it useless, so knowing the MO is the first thing to master... what is a "great organic product???"...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-25-2013, 04:52 PM
Victorsaur Victorsaur is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Define "great organic products"... What makes them great? what is their Mode of Operation(MO)?? will it benefit SOM, CEC, moisture/air ratio or what other benefit???
Improper use of anything renders it useless, so knowing the MO is the first thing to master... what is a "great organic product???"...
I don't mean to speak for Blazers but for me it means an organic product that actually works. Yes, they do exist.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:03 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorsaur View Post
I don't mean to speak for Blazers but for me it means an organic product that actually works. Yes, they do exist.
Yes there are some out there that work well becuz they have adequate amounts of NPK, but so do synferts... the subject of the current discussion is determining what the MO in building the microherd is... if you're not building the microherd at the same time you're providing adequate NPK, it would be considered gimmicky and a waste of the clients' money...

So,,, if you build it they will come... the real issue of building habitat is the heart of organics...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:40 PM
BlazersandWildcats2009's Avatar
BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Yes there are some out there that work well becuz they have adequate amounts of NPK, but so do synferts... the subject of the current discussion is determining what the MO in building the microherd is... if you're not building the microherd at the same time you're providing adequate NPK, it would be considered gimmicky and a waste of the clients' money...

So,,, if you build it they will come... the real issue of building habitat is the heart of organics...

Sorry smallaxe, had too much school work going on yesterday and was to wore out here to come get schooled with more education by you. But you know my opinion about organics, or else I wouldn't be using Lesco as a fertilizer. Now don't get me wrong, I believe there are few organic products out there such as compost that adds positive things that we need to the soil. While nearly everything that works includes a ratio of N-P-K there are other micro nutrients that our lawns need to grow such as Iron, Zinc, Boron, Magnesium, Zinc, and etc. that are often forgot about. I've seen few synthetic fertilizers in the big box store that focused on micro nutrients. If you want to green up your lawn quick, a good N-P-K ration might do your lawn some good, but what about the micro-organisms that are soil needs? From my understanding of all the readings I've done, a steady supply of synthetics will indeed have that green lawn, but wouldn't syns tend to kill the micro-organisms and living things in the soil that we do need to avoid our soil from coming to compacted? While it seems a lawn schedule that includes synthetic fertilizers would indeed provide your lawn with what you need, but wouldn't composting help add the micro-organisms and micro nutrients that our grass also needs to be healthy? Maybe I'm completely wrong and you can give me a better understanding, but from what I've read that's my current view on the main difference between the two; is the nutrients in which they offer and how they offer them. I think it would also be a fair statement to say, synthetics offer a better supply of NPK ratio to have the lawn appear like it's healthy, I also believe there's a beneficial side to certain organics that provide the micro nutrients and organisms that our soil and lawn also needs. But it would also be a fair statement in my eyes to say, most of the "organics" sold are sold to make $$ to the salesman as you stated, because half of the organics don't offer these needed nutrients, while a few organics such as compost, Alpha Tea, and various other things will help provide the correct nutrients and organisms that our soil needs. Feel free to correct me if my theory is wrong, but that's my perspective as of right now from what I've read. But like I mentioned, I will agree most of the organic products are "gimmicks" for someone to put bucks in the wallet.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:45 PM
BlazersandWildcats2009's Avatar
BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Yes there are some out there that work well becuz they have adequate amounts of NPK, but so do synferts... the subject of the current discussion is determining what the MO in building the microherd is... if you're not building the microherd at the same time you're providing adequate NPK, it would be considered gimmicky and a waste of the clients' money...

So,,, if you build it they will come... the real issue of building habitat is the heart of organics...

I read your last sentence also, and it seems like a statement that holds it's worth. I agree if you build with organics, the soil structure will build overtime, but like you said, it's hard to build solely on organics without addition to the most needed nutrients that most syn ferts also include.

While I don't see nothing wrong with either, they give us what we need in some way or another, I see the most difficult challenge is distinguishing between which organic products are a "gimmick" and which ones actually provide us with those micro nutrients and organisms. I also see a challenge when you solely depend on "organics" or solely on "syn." In my opinion if you find the correct balance "organics" and the correct "synferts" you could have the best of both worlds, but I think it all boils down to determining exactly what your soil has in it and exactly what it needs. But I would agree that depending soley on "organics" isn't going to provide you with what you need to have a quick green up, which is what a lot of people out there are looking for, UNLESS you find something that is high in N obviously.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:10 PM
BlazersandWildcats2009's Avatar
BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 191
Small axe, while your chiming in with your perspective on things, I would also love to hear your perspective on another topic. Keep in mind your climate is completely opposite of ours. Some say not to apply ferts after September. However our temperatures for the season don't drop until October/November. While you guys temps. may drop way earlier. Obviously, this late in the season you don't want something high in nitrogen, but from my understanding it would be helpful to have something with a higher formula on the last two. For example 5-10-15 (http://www.lowes.com/pd_92506-303-46...ductId=3582000) or even a 0-10-15 (If I could locate it) in the October/November months when are temps. are still in the 80's and also before the cool season kicks in. While I believe it would benefit us with warm season grasses to stay away from nitrogen in late season, it seems to me as if a 0-10-15 or 5-10-15 might be of some benefit for building a healthy turf. While my perspective could be completely wrong, I would love to hear your input on this. Debates and discussions tend to teach me more than textbooks, hence why I love staying on the forum so much and I would love to hear your input on this.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-26-2013, 04:51 PM
Patriot Services's Avatar
Patriot Services Patriot Services is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 8,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazersandWildcats2009 View Post
First of all, I learned a lot from this website. There are many people here with valuable, valuable information that can get you started in the right direction. I can give you some good hope and tell you that our lawn looked as bad or if not worse than yours. We had everything you can think of, way too much shade, compacted soil, root issues, bug issues, no free-air movement because of our new fencing, and many other problems to list. If you take the tie and dedication you can defiantly make the lawn look like the second picture above, but it will take some work. Grass isn't just going to grow, I would first send a soil sample off, and see what your looking like then people can give you much better advice. If your soil is bad, changing and improving the soil structure will most likely be one of your first steps. Also, there are certain grasses that will grow in shade, ours is Pallisides Zoysia, which is suppose to grow well in the shade. But I can tell you, all grass grown on the farm is grown in sun. Next to soil structure improvement, you would most likely benefit a lot from clearing out any and as much as shade as possible. Some suggest any tree limbs 8 foot from the ground, we took ours up to about 15 feet. Don't let money be your down fall, because I used a $30.00 pole saw from Home Depot, and a hand saw and climbed the tree and did it by hand. Here's some before and after of ours, but as I said I did a lot of work to the soil structure, tree's, etc. and did it by hand without renting rollers, machines, tractors, box blades, or anything of that manner. I used a shovel, hole, wheel barrow, good soil, compost, rakes, and days of sweating and work. Took a few weeks to go from this



to this...







Hours of research would tell you everything you need to know. Look at some of my post, and research and read some of the advice that Agrostics offered us through our entire process. Our entire lawn was a mess, never taken care of, infested in weeds, and worse the soil was so compacted nothing would grow, with the exception of crab grass and weeds.
I assume this is a sod job. Zoysia doesn't grow from seed that fast and only a few species are available. Nice job regardless.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-26-2013, 05:14 PM
phasthound's Avatar
phasthound phasthound is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mt. Laurel, NJ
Posts: 4,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Yes there are some out there that work well becuz they have adequate amounts of NPK, but so do synferts... the subject of the current discussion is determining what the MO in building the microherd is... if you're not building the microherd at the same time you're providing adequate NPK, it would be considered gimmicky and a waste of the clients' money...

So,,, if you build it they will come... the real issue of building habitat is the heart of organics...
Excuse me, but the subject of this discussion was brought up by the OP, not you. You have your opinions and that's fine but if someone is asking for help with an organic lawn care program, I don't think you're being very helpful.
__________________
Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:21 AM.

Page generated in 0.09506 seconds with 10 queries