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  #41  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:51 PM
dboyd351 dboyd351 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in AL View Post
Huh? Perhaps I have not woke up enough yet to understand your comment???
Jeff,
I've read a few of your posts on here and I respect your efforts to help others, so this certainly isn't a criticism of you personally.
But, I'm not a fan of the 4-mix machines. I bought an FS 90 a couple of years ago and almost immediately regretted it. Not only is it fairly expensive to purchase, but, for my purposes, it is heavy, cumbersome and overly complicated.
The Husky 223L I replaced it with is far lighter, better balanced and easier to use and maintain.

I guess my comment was intended to mean putting valves in a trimmer just makes them heavier, more complicated and more expensive to maintain. EPA or not, the competition is getting by without the valves.

Again, I respect your opinion and helpful post, I'm just not much for the 4 mix machines.
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  #42  
Old 09-27-2013, 07:39 PM
WayneJessie WayneJessie is offline
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I cannot speak for other regions of the USA but the 4-Mess engine has not been a hit with commercial users in our neck of the woods. Here in just our small town we have three 2nd generation equipment dealers that have sold Stihl for years. All three say they'll sell a ton of saws but try to steer commercial users away from the 4-Mess engines.
I suspect Stihl would not be spending the time and money to bring the FS94 2-stroke to the market if the 4-Mess was an overwhelming success. Ditto for Shindiawa's version of 4-Mess. When I purchased my Stihl 4-Mess trimmer the dealer tried to nudge me away from them but my previous 2-stroke Stihl ran great for over ten years so I purchased based on that previous experience.
The 4-Mess was Stihl's marketing attempt to please the tree-huggers. They knew they could meet all EPA regulations with 2-strokes just like RedMax, Shindiawa, Tanaka, were already doing but they gambled that they would be able to lead in a new engine design that would take the power equipment world by storm. I think the design of the 4-Mess is sound but to make it reliable would require a much higher level of quality components and materials which would have driven the cost way up. Add to that commercial users who were used to just keeping a good gas/oil mix in their 2-strokes and nothing else was needed for the useful life of the machine.
I eagerly await the release of the FS94. I e-mailed Stihl to find out the release date but they have not as of yet responded.
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:21 PM
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Jeff in AL Jeff in AL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dboyd351 View Post
Is that why we wanted valves in these things?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboyd351 View Post
Jeff,
I've read a few of your posts on here and I respect your efforts to help others, so this certainly isn't a criticism of you personally.
But, I'm not a fan of the 4-mix machines. I bought an FS 90 a couple of years ago and almost immediately regretted it. Not only is it fairly expensive to purchase, but, for my purposes, it is heavy, cumbersome and overly complicated.

Just so I understand this correctly... As well as others that come to gain information here...

The machine runs fine, but it was expensive to purchase, it's heavy/cumbersome and overly complicated?

Well, I'll assume that you have an FS90R which would have retailed between roughly 269.95 - 299.95 (ish) 2 years ago?

Even if your "purposes" have changed in the 2 years since you purchased the unit, the unit is NO more heavy or complicated then it was the day you purchased it?

The Husky 223L I replaced it with is far lighter, better balanced and easier to use and maintain.

Ok, so the Husqvarna 223L is lighter, I get that... Better balanced, I get that... What I don't understand is how the Husqvarna 223L is easier to "use and maintain"?

I guess my comment was intended to mean putting valves in a trimmer just makes them heavier, more complicated and more expensive to maintain. EPA or not, the competition is getting by without the valves.

I agree 100% with you that adding valves, valve train and cylinder modifications have made the unit heavier... Fact is, it added about 8 oz. to the overall engine weight!

As far as being more complicated? I guess that would be true if one didn't understand engines to begin with. From my view as a tech, there is very little difference between them!

How exactly is a 4-Mix more expensive to maintain than a 2-stroke?

You said the competition is getting by without valves? Not true! You do know that Husqvarna as well as other OEM's make 4-stroke units right?


Again, I respect your opinion and helpful post, I'm just not much for the 4 mix machines.
dboyd351,

I mean no disrespect to you by "picking" on your comment, so please don't take it wrong. I like to think it is more of a help to others to explain or backup comments and statements that one makes. Too many threads in my opinion go south and some pretty quick with mis-information, drive-by comments and just plain getting off topic in general.

Secondly, to compare the Stihl FS90 4-Mix to the Husqvarna 223L 2-Stroke is like comparing apples to balloons... Not much in common between them except that they are both trimmers. I mean an F-350 and a Ranger are both trucks too.

Thank you for your time and perhaps one day I may be able to help you!

Jeff
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2013, 08:13 PM
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Jeff in AL Jeff in AL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneJessie View Post
I cannot speak for other regions of the USA but the 4-Mess engine has not been a hit with commercial users in our neck of the woods. Here in just our small town we have three 2nd generation equipment dealers that have sold Stihl for years. All three say they'll sell a ton of saws but try to steer commercial users away from the 4-Mess engines.
I suspect Stihl would not be spending the time and money to bring the FS94 2-stroke to the market if the 4-Mess was an overwhelming success. Ditto for Shindiawa's version of 4-Mess. When I purchased my Stihl 4-Mess trimmer the dealer tried to nudge me away from them but my previous 2-stroke Stihl ran great for over ten years so I purchased based on that previous experience.
The 4-Mess was Stihl's marketing attempt to please the tree-huggers. They knew they could meet all EPA regulations with 2-strokes just like RedMax, Shindiawa, Tanaka, were already doing but they gambled that they would be able to lead in a new engine design that would take the power equipment world by storm. I think the design of the 4-Mess is sound but to make it reliable would require a much higher level of quality components and materials which would have driven the cost way up. Add to that commercial users who were used to just keeping a good gas/oil mix in their 2-strokes and nothing else was needed for the useful life of the machine.
I eagerly await the release of the FS94. I e-mailed Stihl to find out the release date but they have not as of yet responded.
Perhaps you suspected wrong!

Fact is, the 4-Mix HAS been an overwhelming success! Why do other OEM's have 4-stroke versions if they were not successful?

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but I would strongly urge you to do some research before making those bold statements... Perhaps you might then understand how companies like Stihl and others are able to comply with EPA Regulations on the "cleaner" 4-stroke units they produce and earn "credits" on their sales. The OEM's can then use the "credits" to produce units that are not as clean such as the 2-strokes even though they need to meet the minimum EPA Regulations.
This is exactly the case with the Stihl FS94! Stihl used "credits" gained from the sales of the 4-Mix units to produce the 2-stroke FS94!

Perhaps Stihl has seen your post here and didn't feel they needed to respond to your email?

FYI, I ran the FS94 Thursday and it is a throwback to the FS80, FS85 and looks very close at first glance to that era of engines! But when you open the hood, it is night and day! It is light weight and fairly peppy!

They are due to be released and in dealers in November...
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2013, 08:26 PM
GlynnC GlynnC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in AL View Post
dboyd351,



Secondly, to compare the Stihl FS90 4-Mix to the Husqvarna 223L 2-Stroke is like comparing apples to balloons... Not much in common between them except that they are both trimmers. I mean an F-350 and a Ranger are both trucks too.

Thank you for your time and perhaps one day I may be able to help you!

Jeff
The F350 and Ranger both have a place in the truck world. Not every trimmer needs to be an "F350", and yet it seems a lot of individuals who posts do not take that into consideration. As for me, I'd love to have a new Ranger--maybe even an old one, and consider myself lucky to have a new Husky 223L (also have an old Shin 270 when I need a muscle trimmer). Nothing bad to say about the FS90--just don't need one.
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  #46  
Old 09-28-2013, 08:44 PM
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Bumpmaster Bumpmaster is online now
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If you do not have a 90 you are missing out. Just like never having a 67 Mustang!
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  #47  
Old 09-28-2013, 09:19 PM
GlynnC GlynnC is offline
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Originally Posted by Bumpmaster View Post
If you do not have a 90 you are missing out. Just like never having a 67 Mustang!
Going to show my age here--my 1st new car was a decision between a 66 Mustang or a 66 Malibu. Went with the Malibu, a good car but not a Mustang. Hmmm--maybe I better rethink on the 90--oh well, will probably wait until they become hot collector trimmers!!!!
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  #48  
Old 09-28-2013, 10:01 PM
WayneJessie WayneJessie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in AL View Post
Perhaps you suspected wrong!

Fact is, the 4-Mix HAS been an overwhelming success! Why do other OEM's have 4-stroke versions if they were not successful?

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but I would strongly urge you to do some research before making those bold statements... Perhaps you might then understand how companies like Stihl and others are able to comply with EPA Regulations on the "cleaner" 4-stroke units they produce and earn "credits" on their sales. The OEM's can then use the "credits" to produce units that are not as clean such as the 2-strokes even though they need to meet the minimum EPA Regulations.
This is exactly the case with the Stihl FS94! Stihl used "credits" gained from the sales of the 4-Mix units to produce the 2-stroke FS94!

Perhaps Stihl has seen your post here and didn't feel they needed to respond to your email?

FYI, I ran the FS94 Thursday and it is a throwback to the FS80, FS85 and looks very close at first glance to that era of engines! But when you open the hood, it is night and day! It is light weight and fairly peppy!

They are due to be released and in dealers in November...
No disrespect but one 4-Mess was enough for me. All three dealers in my town will sell 10 2-stroke trimmers to one 4-Mess. That's their words not mine. Maybe just mine was a turd and the dealers here are biased. I'm OK with that. I hope Stihl uses their "credits" well to build a good trimmer in the FS94.
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  #49  
Old 09-29-2013, 05:00 PM
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Jeff in AL Jeff in AL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneJessie View Post
No disrespect but one 4-Mess was enough for me. All three dealers in my town will sell 10 2-stroke trimmers to one 4-Mess. That's their words not mine. Maybe just mine was a turd and the dealers here are biased. I'm OK with that. I hope Stihl uses their "credits" well to build a good trimmer in the FS94.
Yeah, I got it and I'm pretty sure we ALL got it...You don't like Stihl 4-Mix units because the ONE you purchased in 2000 had problems! Get over it already!

I'm not sure why you are so excited about the FS94, you know you will hate it as it won't compare to your other equipment brands that you have NEVER had any problems with.

8 out of 10 units I sell to commercial cutters are an FS90. Why? Well, it doesn't mattery why as you wouldn't understand or care to understand why. The point is, they are a VERY popular unit across the country and around the world.

Best of luck to ya!
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  #50  
Old 09-29-2013, 10:44 PM
GlynnC GlynnC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in AL View Post

I'm not sure why you are so excited about the FS94, you know you will hate it as it won't compare to your other equipment brands that you have NEVER had any problems with.


Best of luck to ya!
Sorta an observer here, but Jeff, you may have missed the point that Wayne bought the Stihl "4-mess" as he calls it because he had owned an older Stihl that he had been very pleased with--it wasn't some other brand. If his 4-mix had performed at the level of his 2-stroke Stihl, it appears he would have been happy with it.

After years of reading this forum, don't know what it is about Stihl that brings the passion out--both for and against. No other brand seems to bring out the strong feelings. For the most part, I guessing a fair amount of thought goes into equipment purchases, and yet there is no shortage of opinions of how bad the decisions were--oh well, it keeps the forum going!
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