Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:52 PM
foreplease's Avatar
foreplease foreplease is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Joseph, MI
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by DA Quality Lawn & YS View Post
I'm sure that Oct 10th date is not a hard and fast date...what I would like to know is what weather/soil/turf conditions indicate that you should start winding down your fert apps for the season?
I'm with you, DA. One turf condition that has not been mentioned and could extend the acceptable time frame, in my view, is recent aeration - solid tine or core.

Caring for turf will never be all science or academic, no more than standing in the batters box trying to get a base hit -- and we don't know what pitch is going to be thrown or what the next batter is going to do. I went to turf school. Professors are important; they teach and conduct research. Whether it's soils, pathology, cultural practices, fertilizers, weed control, selecting and establishing turf, irrigation, etc. it is good to have the education as a background. Long after I graduated new premises have been tested and new recommendations have been made - some conflicting with earlier recommendations. You have to have a base, whether you learned it in the classroom or from years of working with competent people in the field, from which you can devise your own plans and make your own decisions -- and, sometimes, take your chances.

I don't know who said it, but a quote that has always served me well is: When you attempt to make a science out of an art, you elect to be precisely wrong instead of generally correct. What we do is part science and part art.

Sometimes I get in situations in the field that make me want to read published articles or look for answers in the discussions on lawnsite. Other times, what I really need is an enterprising young b@st@rd working beside me.

When the ground is frozen, it is too late to fertilize (that has not always been thought by academia). When you know it will be frozen in less than a week, there is about a 85% chance it is too late. Very early Spring is not good. Everything else in on the table for me depending on many factors that are sometimes reduced to informed intuition. It is more complex than a two-dimension question and solution IMO.
__________________
Michigan PABL
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:28 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by DA Quality Lawn & YS View Post
I'm sure that Oct 10th date is not a hard and fast date...what I would like to know is what weather/soil/turf conditions indicate that you should start winding down your fert apps for the season?
The primary issue is water... no matter what you think of 'science' it would be good to observe how water makes a difference to any fertilizer app...

I did a fert app right after the Summer heat was done in late Aug... Got some rain and never in the 90s for more than a day at a time... it typically take a couple weeks to notice the color change from the fertilizer on unirrigated turf,,, if normal moisture is available...
A few weeks later I applied Milorganite and figured that would get me through the Winter because it breaks down slower...

As it turned out,,, we didn't get adequate moisture for the ferts to soluablize and be utilized until just recently... The color has really brightened up in the past week or so becuz of all the rain...

Fully irrigated lawns that soak all the grass several times a week have a different timing,,, but it is turned off in Oct and the ground may be frozen in 2-6 weeks...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-22-2013, 08:17 AM
foreplease's Avatar
foreplease foreplease is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Joseph, MI
Posts: 1,212
Milorganite, like other organic fertilizers, works best at soil temps above 70. Ammonium sulfate, on the other hand, is a great cool weather choice as someone mentioned above. Both and dozens more are in our toolboxes, affording each of us a lot of latitude and discretion.
__________________
Michigan PABL
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-22-2013, 08:49 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
Milorganite, like other organic fertilizers, works best at soil temps above 70. Ammonium sulfate, on the other hand, is a great cool weather choice as someone mentioned above. Both and dozens more are in our toolboxes, affording each of us a lot of latitude and discretion.
Agreed...
If your turf uses up a 1/2 of a pound of Ammonium Sulfate before the ground freezes then it may have been a good decision...

An important 'toolbox' question is:
"What happens to Ammonium Sulfate if it just sits on the frozen turf for 5 months???"
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-22-2013, 09:07 AM
foreplease's Avatar
foreplease foreplease is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Joseph, MI
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Agreed...
If your turf uses up a 1/2 of a pound of Ammonium Sulfate before the ground freezes then it may have been a good decision...
Assuming such a thing could be proven, under what circumstances would it not have been a good decision? And, of what value is that information in making a recommendation or decision for next year since we do not know the actual freeze date in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
An important 'toolbox' question is:
"What happens to Ammonium Sulfate if it just sits on the frozen turf for 5 months???"
I don't know and surely never will - not from experience anyway. Someone who would do such a thing is probably slinging urea. Wondering what I said that would raise this question. You do like to repeat yourself until everyone else agrees or drops it. Perhaps it is that?
__________________
Michigan PABL
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-22-2013, 09:40 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,822
I can't find that chart that you posted in another thread... I believe that gave a number of figures, one which rated stability in the soil... When FD, made the comment about .5 pound, I believe,,, volitization/leaching was a consideration,,, although he addressed it as outright waste...

If you want to exercise latitude in selecting from the many items available to you, in your toolbox, then as a Professional you would have a reason for each selection, made from that toolbox... sorry, if this sounds repetitive, but I am only trying different phraseology to see if there is an answer... if you don't believe you will ever know how much fert would be wasted and will therefore just keep dumping as always, then fine...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:09 AM
foreplease's Avatar
foreplease foreplease is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Joseph, MI
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
I don't know and surely never will - not from experience anyway. Someone who would do such a thing is probably slinging urea. Wondering what I said that would raise this question.
Means I have never done it, even when it was 'current science,' and never will.

Many people here - and I am one of them - have more reasons than you have tools. I do not ever do anything without a reason or purpose. Perhaps you should find that chart. I admit that I do not know it all, nor can I remember it all; it is a very useful chart.
__________________
Michigan PABL
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-03-2013, 01:08 PM
Exact Rototilling's Avatar
Exact Rototilling Exact Rototilling is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Zone: 5B
Posts: 4,538
As a test today I'm going to put down 3 different products. A combination of fast and slower release heavy across my front lawn at an angle to induce the racing stripe effect. I'm 1/3 a mile off the main road so I don't care.

Temps are cold here but no hard freeze as of yet. Many lawns in the area look really dingy.


Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:46 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,822
The health of the turf is not determined by the color of the leaves... like putting lipstick on a cancer patient doesn't give you a good picture of how she's doing...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-05-2013, 09:44 PM
Toro 44's Avatar
Toro 44 Toro 44 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Bucks County PA
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exact Rototilling View Post
As a test today I'm going to put down 3 different products. A combination of fast and slower release heavy across my front lawn at an angle to induce the racing stripe effect. I'm 1/3 a mile off the main road so I don't care.

Temps are cold here but no hard freeze as of yet. Many lawns in the area look really dingy.


Posted via Mobile Device
Sounds great. Keep us posted!

I'm in zone 6 almost 7. So i have a little more time left in my season. Final apps going down now.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 PM.

Page generated in 0.07245 seconds with 9 queries