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  #31  
Old 10-31-2013, 05:57 PM
turf&tree turf&tree is offline
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The ingredients are as follows:
1) smoke
2) mirrors

Read up on microbes, you cannot refrigerate them. Or suffocate them.
I am surprised the food web people aren't all over holganix.
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2013, 09:57 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf&tree View Post
The ingredients are as follows:
1) smoke
2) mirrors

Read up on microbes, you cannot refrigerate them. Or suffocate them.
I am surprised the food web people aren't all over holganix.
There is a great deal of mythology regarding microbes and the idea that freezing them destroys the populations is certainly one of them... Our soils freeze solid every winter and as soon as the soil begins to thaw, we can smell the bacterial action that begins immediately... an the smell changes as the soil warms/dries/soaks/etc.

Never heard of 'suffocating' a bacteria before either... in bottles of stagnant water, anaerobic bacteria will dominate the scene, but as soon as you dump it out onto the soil aerobic microbes will begin to grow...
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  #33  
Old 11-01-2013, 04:29 PM
turf&tree turf&tree is offline
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So you have put holganix under a microscope and found vast colonies of live microbes? Because I know people who have and haven't found much in the way of life in their jug of mystery water.
Also everything I have read about compost tea says that when it goes anaerobic don't use it.
Sorry I'm so misinformed.
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2013, 06:33 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by turf&tree View Post
So you have put holganix under a microscope and found vast colonies of live microbes? Because I know people who have and haven't found much in the way of life in their jug of mystery water.
Also everything I have read about compost tea says that when it goes anaerobic don't use it.
Sorry I'm so misinformed.
Where does the anaerobic bacteria come from when the other aerobic bacteria die??? Who eats the food when the solution is dumped out onto open ground with lots of air???

Open up a can of soup and see how long it takes for all those "Dead Microbes" to start rotting your soup,,, right in the can... It is harder to prevent rot than it is to make it happen...

Once the food is gone the microbial activity will stop... the environment in which the food exists will determine the type, style, species, kind of microbes do the eating... comparing Holganix in a bottle,,, to Holganix in the dirt is invalid... it is the claims about how microbes cycle nutrients that makes this an issue... microbes cycle OM into food for plants, until they themselves become food for plants,,, end of story once the food supply is GONE...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2013, 07:08 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Where does the anaerobic bacteria come from when the other aerobic bacteria die??? Who eats the food when the solution is dumped out onto open ground with lots of air???

Open up a can of soup and see how long it takes for all those "Dead Microbes" to start rotting your soup,,, right in the can... It is harder to prevent rot than it is to make it happen...

Once the food is gone the microbial activity will stop... the environment in which the food exists will determine the type, style, species, kind of microbes do the eating... comparing Holganix in a bottle,,, to Holganix in the dirt is invalid... it is the claims about how microbes cycle nutrients that makes this an issue... microbes cycle OM into food for plants, until they themselves become food for plants,,, end of story once the food supply is GONE...
So how does this answer the question you were asked? And why do you think anaerobic microbes provides the same benefits to plants as aerobic microbes?
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2013, 07:26 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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So how does this answer the question you were asked? And why do you think anaerobic microbes provides the same benefits to plants as aerobic microbes?
It requires thought to determine the relevancy of any given hypothetical rhetorical question... It requires thought to understand what I meant by what I said...

In reality I'm not addressing Holganix in a vacuum, but the relevancy of microbial activity in which to form context in the understanding of what Holganix is all about... try to keep up...
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2013, 08:37 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
It requires thought to determine the relevancy of any given hypothetical rhetorical question... It requires thought to understand what I meant by what I said...

In reality I'm not addressing Holganix in a vacuum, but the relevancy of microbial activity in which to form context in the understanding of what Holganix is all about... try to keep up...
There is no need for you to be so condescending in your reply.
Your thought process is vastly different than mine. I would be afraid to get into your mind.

You were asked if you had looked at the product under the microscope and then about why you believe anaerobic microbes have the benefits of aerobic ones. Please explain what you are talking about and how a can of soup is similar to soil and plant health.
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  #38  
Old 11-01-2013, 08:58 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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There has been plenty of microscopic work done with microbes,,, since the time of Louis Pasteur... What is it about Holganix that would require so much microscopic observation??? Of course I haven't bothered to view Holganix under a microscope... Not when it is fresh,,, not after 2 weeks on a shelf and not after it has gone to putrid dirty water... If that becomes necessary to understand what is going on in a jug of germs,,, then we haven't learned a thing about,,, "How Microbes Work",,, and "Why CERTAIN microbes Thrive in One Environment, but Not Others"...

If I need to examine all organic activity in every lawn to understand what is happening in every organic lawn under all the various conditions in which living critters exist, then it becomes obvious that we never can discuss anything about organics in general,,, let alone specifically ,,, Holganix...

So now go ahead and tell me how foolish, ignorant and non-scientific I am because I don't use microscopes to see what the putrid water actually consists of...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2013, 10:26 PM
turf&tree turf&tree is offline
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Wow, Barry. Just let it go obviously he runs around chasing his tail. You and I know what works and chemical lawn care is going buy buy. I'm starting to think he is on JDL's payroll. He isn't too keen on organics.
But he sure seems to be an expert in every aspect of landscaping and has way too much time on his hands.
I stayed away from forums because of this type of guy.
Not interested in helping, just offering criticism!!!
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  #40  
Old 11-02-2013, 01:25 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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It looks like most of the respondents here have been disappointed with the results of Holganix. When confronted with these poor results, the Holganix people simply say "apply more". What sense does that make other than for them to sell more of their product.

If the lawn you are applying this mixture to could support these microbes or at least increased populations of them. You should be asking yourself "Why were they not already?"

It seems to me if the application area cannot support them then you might as well be applying them to dry concrete.

Applying a product that will increase the numbers of already present microbes I can understand. Applying more microbes to an area that can only support what is there already makes no sense to me.

I would think that soil improvement would support increased populations of microbes. At that point, this product MIGHT be a useful tool. Before that, it would seem to be a waste of time/money.

Do you think they might have the horse before the wagon?...From what I can see, they do.
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