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  #31  
Old 11-05-2013, 07:23 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Originally Posted by Victorsaur View Post
Hi greendoctor, heritage,

I've been reading your posts on this thread. I just wanted to ask that if my summary of understanding here is accurate: For inland clay soils, the basic procedure for creating a soil makeup that provides better drainage is getting pH levels to about 7 and the Ca:Mg ratio to 7:1. Carbon sources add to the stability of clay soils as well as OM if it is (below 4%?). Be aware of possible man-made pollutants and salts. I noted also GD's post about using citric acid on alkaline clay soils to help "break it up" with sufficient irrigation of course. What about clay soils that are naturally acidic? Please correct or add to any of this.

And another question, do either of you have recommendations on any in-depth books or soil labs?
This link should help as well for your region.

http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/about/century/soilacidity.html
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  #32  
Old 11-05-2013, 07:53 PM
Victorsaur Victorsaur is offline
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This link should help as well for your region.

http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/about/century/soilacidity.html
Oh thanks. Good read, interesting to know that lime neutralizes aluminum toxicity.

Of course adding organic matter makes the most sense for improving the CEC. I was just curious whether GD's addition of sulfur / citric acid provided any long term soil improvements.
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  #33  
Old 11-06-2013, 12:22 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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If there is a coral base and constant contamination by sea water, no such thing as a long term improvement. Best improvement is obtained by stripping off at least 18" of the imported dirt and replacing it with a low CEC media. That's right, I do not want it retaining Mg or Na. I would rather supply what the plants need on a regular basis.
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  #34  
Old 11-06-2013, 08:29 AM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Originally Posted by Victorsaur View Post
Oh thanks. Good read, interesting to know that lime neutralizes aluminum toxicity.

Of course adding organic matter makes the most sense for improving the CEC. I was just curious whether GD's addition of sulfur / citric acid provided any long term soil improvements.
Yes and the OM too is a big player keeping the Al less available to plant roots.

OM is a great pH buffer too and supports the soil food web. More oxygen in the top horizon of soil supports healthier plants.
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  #35  
Old 11-06-2013, 10:35 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Nice work Kiril with that soil type.


I am wondering though if The A horizon is where you get your Ca/Mg ratio and pH reading from......

The B horizon sure......

Quite an Organic layer on the top.
Soil cores were taken at 8-10 inches with all the organic matter discarded for testing. The results include both the consolidated clay and aggregated clay and I would consider both as A horizon. The compost on top is ~ 1/2" thick on average.

One might make an valid argument to test the two layers independently given the differences, however given this is turf I am not inclined to make that distinction.

The Ca:Mg and pH are a result of inherent properties of the soil and irrigation inputs. Irrigation water runs high in Mg with a pH of 8.3-8.5.
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  #36  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:35 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Soil cores were taken at 8-10 inches with all the organic matter discarded for testing. The results include both the consolidated clay and aggregated clay and I would consider both as A horizon. The compost on top is ~ 1/2" thick on average.

One might make an valid argument to test the two layers independently given the differences, however given this is turf I am not inclined to make that distinction.

The Ca:Mg and pH are a result of inherent properties of the soil and irrigation inputs. Irrigation water runs high in Mg with a pH of 8.3-8.5.
So asides from the compost topdress, what other inputs are you using for this improved clay site?
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  #37  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:11 PM
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Aeration + Compost does a clay soil good. Compost applied once a year with aeration every three years for the past 15 years or so with a Ca:Mg of 1.07 and pH of 7.5.

Ahhhhh Electrons.

Low water tables in the area???
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:43 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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The concept of garbage in garbage out applies in my case. Locally available compost has a lot of salt and magnesium because it is made from green waste growing on high magnesium/sodium soils. I have had compost tested, only to find out it would apply the very things I do not want any more of.
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  #39  
Old 11-08-2013, 09:08 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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So asides from the compost topdress, what other inputs are you using for this improved clay site?
Gypsum.

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Ahhhhh Electrons.

Low water tables in the area???
No low water table, except for the perched water table that is created when rain/irrigation exceeds the infiltration rate of the consolidated layer. Turns that area into a marsh.
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  #40  
Old 11-11-2013, 07:50 PM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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Kiril, interesting photo and results. I am partially color blind; how much, if any, thatch is showing in that sample? If I could see it in person and feel it I would know. On screen it looks like a significant layer to me but if you tell me it's red or orange I'll have to take your word for it
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