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  #61  
Old 11-10-2013, 10:29 PM
04cubcadet3235 04cubcadet3235 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX12R View Post
I am not so sure we should be comparing truck engines to lawn mower engines in reference to emissions. Either way I find it strange that Kohler lowered the maintenance interval by such a huge margin by 1300 hours.My guess is that the ethanol dries out the media inside the filter much quicker breaking it down with pieces of it potentially entering the fuel system beyond the filter. Guess we will never know unless an independent unbiased test is performed ,but,I would not hold my breadth over it.
It is all engines, not just diesel engines.
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  #62  
Old 11-10-2013, 11:15 PM
TuffTurfLawnCare TuffTurfLawnCare is offline
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Originally Posted by 04cubcadet3235 View Post
That is probably actually not the reason, ethanol fuel has been around longer than kohler had the efi engines. It probably has to due with emissions since the government is pushing harder emissions on engines. Look at caterpillar and international, you don't see those engines in trucks anymore, the fact they could not make emissions. You go on internationals website now, your not going to see the DT466E in their trucks anymore, they are using cummins now. Or they could have cheapened the filter and now it is not as good. Ethanol is not as bad as you think... I laugh at all these stores around here with "ethonal treatment" products everywhere and people buying them for their brand new mowers/ tractors, engines etc... People think that ethonal is bad for everything, and it wears the internal parts of engines, and the people at these places will say anything to the customers about how bad ethonal is so they buy the product. Its a great way of making money for fuel treatment companies, that alone has greatly contributed to why everyone thinks ethonal is bad.

Cummins is not the only engine available, the new version of the DT466 now known as the MAXXFORCE DT is still based on the DT466. We just got 8 more trucks in our fleet that have the new DT and 2 with the the MAXXFORCE 9 (530 replacement).

Also, we have a 2012 Peterbuilt wrecker with Cats new version of the C13, the now named CT13. This is the engine that is now in the Cat on road trucks. www.drivecat.com. The trucks are nice, if you haven't been in one yet...

Just saying...
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  #63  
Old 11-10-2013, 11:31 PM
04cubcadet3235 04cubcadet3235 is offline
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Originally Posted by TuffTurfLawnCare View Post
Cummins is not the only engine available, the new version of the DT466 now known as the MAXXFORCE DT is still based on the DT466. We just got 8 more trucks in our fleet that have the new DT and 2 with the the MAXXFORCE 9 (530 replacement).

Also, we have a 2012 Peterbuilt wrecker with Cats new version of the C13, the now named CT13. This is the engine that is now in the Cat on road trucks. www.drivecat.com. The trucks are nice, if you haven't been in one yet...

Just saying...
DT466E MAXXFORCEDT is the same engine, they just don't say "DT466E" anymore, because the MAXXFORCEDT is the newer "emisson" engine. Also, how is that injection system on your cat CT13? I hear there are lots of issues but have not seen one yet. They still make the MAXXFORCEDT/DT466E they just don't use them unless you request them, I was told that you have to pay a $5000 government fee for that motor because it does not meet emissions. No i haven't been in one of those new peterbuilt trucks yet but hopefully i will soon. The guy who rents from us has about 10 or 15 trucks and his newest one is a volvo, it sure is nice. It has every feature known to man. Honestly, if we didnt have all this enviromental crap we would be on my favorite motor, the DT466E 12 valve motor last produced in 2003. 2003 was international's best year for that motor in my opinion, i believe they did some updates to it. Only problem with that motor is trying to get any more power out of it than what it came from the factory with...
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  #64  
Old 11-11-2013, 10:54 AM
TuffTurfLawnCare TuffTurfLawnCare is offline
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The Pete is nice, alot of plastic in the one we got. The Cat trucks are really nice. Not sure if you misunderstood me, but Cat is making their own trucks under the Cat name now...

So far we haven't had any issues with the C13 in the Pete. But the Detroit series 60 that is in the other truck will out run it. We were trying to find a chassis with a C15 in it when we ordered the wrecker but there weren't any available by that time.
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  #65  
Old 11-11-2013, 11:20 AM
04cubcadet3235 04cubcadet3235 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffTurfLawnCare View Post
The Pete is nice, alot of plastic in the one we got. The Cat trucks are really nice. Not sure if you misunderstood me, but Cat is making their own trucks under the Cat name now...

So far we haven't had any issues with the C13 in the Pete. But the Detroit series 60 that is in the other truck will out run it. We were trying to find a chassis with a C15 in it when we ordered the wrecker but there weren't any available by that time.
No i didn't see you said cat is making their own trucks, i have yet to see one yet, they probably are very nice though. We'll have to see how they hold up in the long run...
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  #66  
Old 11-11-2013, 03:12 PM
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JimQ JimQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffTurfLawnCare View Post
The bold part is wrong. Alcohol is hygroscopic, meaning it attracts and hold on to water molecules. Gasoline is not, and will not mix with water. In pure gasoline, the water will simply fall to the bottom of the tank and lay there. However, ethanol will mix with the fuel. The ethanol will attract and hold onto water keeping it in suspension which allows the water to make it through the fuel system, into the engine, and out the exhaust (This is the simple science behind "tank dry" "fuel water remover", etc that is sold in the auto part store).

The problem is when too much water is introduced and the alcohol can't hold it in suspension. It begins to go into phase separation where the water/ethanol falls to the bottom of the tank. It is this phase separation that is the simple science behind determining the amount of ethanol in the fuel.

i.e. Take a known amount of fuel (100ml)
Add a known amount of water (20ml)
Mix thoroughly and allow time to seperate, then drain off the top layer (fuel now without the ethanol and water)

measure the remaining water/ethanol mix and this will tell you what percentage of ethanol the fuel was.

100ml fuel
20ml water
drain off the fuel, and your left with 35ml of water/ethanol, then your fuel was E15. This can be done, because its the ETHANOL that holds water, NOT the fuel.

This method can be used to remove ethanol from fuel, but it should be noted that the ethanol is an octane booster to the fuel. So if you remove the ethanol, the octane of the fuel could be dangerously low.

Since I'm not a chemist, just a mechanic of all things that burn fuel, I run 100LL avgas in all my two strokes, and everything gets stored with it during the off season. 2 year shelf life, no ethanol, and very tightly controlled. In the years I have been running it, I have never had a single problem with any of my equipment, even the Husky saw that with a full tank for 2 years, then fired up and ran like it was new.


Thank you. Nice post.

Q
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  #67  
Old 11-11-2013, 06:23 PM
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Richard Martin Richard Martin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX12R View Post
Hey Richard,the original manual that came with my Walker states that the EFI fuel filter be changed at 1500 hours. The latest online manuals dropped the interval by 1300 hours! They say change it at 200 hours and more frequently under dusty conditions. Gotta point the finger at ethanol although Kohler will never admit that.


See page 5 for the info:

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec.../24_590_28.pdf
It's not an issue with ethanol. That manual is intended to be used with 2 completely different EFI systems. The older Bosch EFI and the new Kohler ECV/ECH system. There are marked differences between the 2 systems. They're attempting to kill 2 birds with one stone. The Bosch fuel filter can be safely run to 1500 hours.
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  #68  
Old 11-13-2013, 09:00 PM
04cubcadet3235 04cubcadet3235 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Martin View Post
It's not an issue with ethanol. That manual is intended to be used with 2 completely different EFI systems. The older Bosch EFI and the new Kohler ECV/ECH system. There are marked differences between the 2 systems. They're attempting to kill 2 birds with one stone. The Bosch fuel filter can be safely run to 1500 hours.
I knew this had nothing to do with ethonal, but everyone needs something to blame so everyone blames ethonal... My question here is, since i have never tore apart a kohler efi before and only work on carb ones. Which system was overall better? Ive heard the older style efi system gave better fuel economy and those engines were a bit more powerful and the new system uses more fuel and creates less power.
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