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  #21  
Old 12-05-2013, 12:29 AM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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[QUOTE=Smallaxe;4913117]One thing you are going to want to consider is that physical properties(Apples) are more relevant in infiltration, percolation and drainage than are chemical properties(oranges)...in fact,,, indispensable... QUOTE]

One thing you should consider is that physical, chemical and biological properties all play indispensable roles in infiltration, percolation and drainage.
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  #22  
Old 12-05-2013, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
and an extension service doc since axe seems to like them.
http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/agricultur...inage-of-soils
She lists the main factors influencing infiltration as sand, loam (rather than silt), and clay. Do you think this is an intentional simplification/dumbing down? Axe later refers to these same 3 from his high school ag classes. Do various parts of the country and world use another model vs the traditional soil triangle?

I find that people describe or specify loam as though it is a specific material rather than a term encompassing a range of combinations of sand, silt, and clay. Always reminds me of someone who would order 'the fish' in a restaurant, ignoring that the choices are perch, salmon, and sea bass. The fish stew would contain, within constraints, some of each of the 3 fish.

Overall I think that extension piece is a good quick overview on things that influence water infiltration but am unclear on her intent.
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2013, 09:23 AM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCW View Post
...your responses weren't relevant to anything that you quoted in my posts...poorly disguised as a Socratic teaching moment.
Posted via Mobile Device
More annoying than helpful or stimulating, eh? Quoting oneself as, ironically, I am about to do exudes self-righteousness. Nonetheless, I have sometimes felt the same way you do.
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  #24  
Old 12-05-2013, 10:34 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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So everyone came into this thread to disrupt the conversation and are babbling about other articles, passing judgment on me and not once addressing a single sentence in the article I presented,,, in my thread... thanks for nothing...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2013, 10:47 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Please Note the Definitions above:

A colloid is a molecular aggregate,,, that becomes a particle of a certain size,,, and of course, size has everything to do with solution...

Particles of a certain size will stir up into water and stay in solution(sugar, for example)... Colloids are particles that may stir up in water, but then precipitate out of solution once the stirring motion has stopped(clay soil particles,, for example)...

So we got the knowledge that Colloids are 'molecular' aggregates ,,, but from our perspective,, it is a particle!!! like a grain of salt... as a visual,,, we might think of the cinder blocks as being a molecular aggregate(colloid) and then think of peds as particle aggregate or colloid aggregate or cinder block aggregate...
If you are able to think in terms of building blocks,,, all we are talking about here is starting with smallest to largest... Don't overthink it...

NEXT:
The term aggregate is a loaded term,,, that from the common sense perspective,,, means group or buch,,, in our current day vernacular...
So, for soils a group of molecular aggregates that color="blue"] cohere,[/color] to one another to form larger aggregates allow more pore space for water to move...

Are we on the same page yet???
No, we clearly are not. Take your own advice, note the definition which clearly states a colloid MAY be a molecular aggregate, not IS one as you have incorrectly stated.

Further, please understand what in solution and precipitate means before you use the terms, particularly since you have used them incorrectly here. A suspended solid is not in solution nor does it precipitate out of solution, it settles.

And finally, more education is again in order.

http://www.css.cornell.edu/courses/2...olloid%202.pdf
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  #26  
Old 12-05-2013, 11:00 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
She lists the main factors influencing infiltration as sand, loam (rather than silt), and clay. Do you think this is an intentional simplification/dumbing down?
Yes and no. Generally speaking, infiltration rate is directly proportional to particle size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
Axe later refers to these same 3 from his high school ag classes. Do various parts of the country and world use another model vs the traditional soil triangle?
There are different classification systems, how many different ones I wouldn't know off hand. Here is some discussion on it. I did not read it so I don't know if it is all inclusive.

http://cals.arizona.edu/OALS/soils/classifsystems.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
I find that people describe or specify loam as though it is a specific material rather than a term encompassing a range of combinations of sand, silt, and clay. Always reminds me of someone who would order 'the fish' in a restaurant, ignoring that the choices are perch, salmon, and sea bass. The fish stew would contain, within constraints, some of each of the 3 fish.
Yes, incorrect region specific uses of the word loam, and it doesn't stop there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
Overall I think that extension piece is a good quick overview on things that influence water infiltration but am unclear on her intent.
A very general illustration of principles without getting too technical about the subject. Think of it like conceptual soil science for idiots.
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2013, 12:35 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
No, we clearly are not. Take your own advice, note the definition which clearly states a colloid MAY be a molecular aggregate, not IS one as you have incorrectly stated.

Further, please understand what in solution and precipitate means before you use the terms, particularly since you have used them incorrectly here. A suspended solid is not in solution nor does it precipitate out of solution, it settles.

And finally, more education is again in order.

http://www.css.cornell.edu/courses/2...olloid%202.pdf
The use of 'colloid' came from tcw, not my article... going on forever fine tuning the definition of the colloid is stupid when the discussion is about aggregates or peds... You are irrelevant to the discussion at hand and only wish to make an argument on something as trivial as colloid... any little reason to blow hard,,, right??? As with foreplease now... what a lame joke... majoring in the minors and never getting it clear why round things act differently than flat things and getting some college kid to believe that foolishness...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #28  
Old 12-05-2013, 12:38 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
The use of 'colloid' came from tcw, not my article... going on forever fine tuning the definition of the colloid is stupid when the discussion is about aggregates or peds...
It is? You better let yourself know then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Missouri education, talks about water movement through various soil types:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Evidently there is something I'm missing in these short paragraphs that do not allow for platelets in clay to restrict water infiltration... I'd like to hear rational explanation why clay platelets do NOT restrict water movement...
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  #29  
Old 12-05-2013, 01:35 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Credible information for those who care.

http://soilandwater.bee.cornell.edu/...ideo_water.htm
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2013, 05:03 PM
grassclippers grassclippers is offline
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Thanks for the link,good info!
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