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  #11  
Old 12-06-2013, 03:15 PM
205mx 205mx is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vld View Post
Boiled down to:

Big gate you charge less

Small gate you charge more


Gate size will cause you to raise or lower your price. No matter how you slice it, reason it, justify it, explain it.
Unless you don't raise it.

:-D
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2013, 04:58 PM
35DollarLawns 35DollarLawns is offline
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A gate don't cause ME to raise my price The gate causes me to work long in turn costing them more for the service

What I mean is if the rate is the rate than the size of the job only affects the time, the time effects the Cost due to the Rate.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2013, 05:22 PM
A. W. Landscapers, Inc.'s Avatar
A. W. Landscapers, Inc. A. W. Landscapers, Inc. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vld View Post
Boiled down to:

Big gate you charge less

Small gate you charge more


Gate size will cause you to raise or lower your price. No matter how you slice it, reason it, justify it, explain it.
You seem to be missing the point (which is TIME) and failed to quote the relevant portion of my post (where I explained to you what charging MORE actually is) because it doesn't support your incorrect claim that we charge MORE for a property that has an existing small gates. In case you missed it, here it is again:

Quote:
At no time would I be charging MORE. There is no increased time to service the property, there is only a decrease in time.

If the property had a 6 foot gate and then the owner removed the 6 foot gate and installed a 30" gate the cost to service that property would then be MORE because there is an increase in time needed to service the property…That is charging MORE.
It all boils down to the TIME I spend doing the job…more TIME more money, less TIME less money.

If the client has a 30" gate the fastest I can possibly service that property is X hours. The base price for that property is X times my hourly rate. If the client does something IN THE FUTURE that will save me Y hours the price for that property would then become (X - Y) x hourly rate = price. Notice the little minus symbol in that equation which indicates that a value is now being SUBTRACTED from the original equation resulting in a LOWER price for that job.

There is no way I'm going to waste my time calculating a price based on using my 60" ZTR when I can only use my 21" push mower. The time it takes to use 60" ZTR on that property isn't even a factor in this equation because I can't use it on this property. The only thing that matters is how long will it take me with that 21" mower…

(X hours using the ZTR x hourly rate) + up charge for gate + up charge for 21" mower = price is an overly complex way to calculate the price for that property when you can simply use the equation X hours using the 21" mower x hourly rate = price

There is no need to complicate things by doing a 3 step calculation when a 1 step calculation is all that is needed.

Keep it simple…

Your hourly rate multiplied by the estimated number of hours it will take to service that property using only the equipment that is currently possible to use equals price.

$60 x 1 hour with a 21" mower = $60 (this is the only equation that matters)

$60 x .5 hours with a 60" mower = $30 (this equation doesn't need to be done because you CAN'T use a 60" mower)

Would you price planting 4 dozen tulip bulbs based on digging holes with a backhoe or would you price the job based on using a bulb planter?
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2013, 05:28 PM
205mx 205mx is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. W. Landscapers, Inc. View Post
You seem to be missing the point (which is TIME) and failed to quote the relevant portion of my post (where I explained to you what charging MORE actually is) because it doesn't support your incorrect claim that we charge MORE for a property that has an existing small gates. In case you missed it, here it is again:



It all boils down to the TIME I spend doing the job…more TIME more money, less TIME less money.

If the client has a 30" gate the fastest I can possibly service that property is X hours. The base price for that property is X times my hourly rate. If the client does something IN THE FUTURE that will save me Y hours the price for that property would then become (X - Y) x hourly rate = price. Notice the little minus symbol in that equation which indicates that a value is now being SUBTRACTED from the original equation resulting in a LOWER price for that job.

There is no way I'm going to waste my time calculating a price based on using my 60" ZTR when I can only use my 21" push mower. The time it takes to use 60" ZTR on that property isn't even a factor in this equation because I can't use it on this property. The only thing that matters is how long will it take me with that 21" mower…

(X hours using the ZTR x hourly rate) + up charge for gate + up charge for 21" mower = price is an overly complex way to calculate the price for that property when you can simply use the equation X hours using the 21" mower x hourly rate = price

There is no need to complicate things by doing a 3 step calculation when a 1 step calculation is all that is needed.

Keep it simple…

Your hourly rate multiplied by the estimated number of hours it will take to service that property using only the equipment that is currently possible to use equals price.

$60 x 1 hour with a 21" mower = $60 (this is the only equation that matters)

$60 x .5 hours with a 60" mower = $30 (this equation doesn't need to be done because you CAN'T use a 60" mower)

Would you price planting 4 dozen tulip bulbs based on digging holes with a backhoe or would you price the job based on using a bulb planter?
What he said
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:55 PM
dnc19694339 dnc19694339 is offline
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talk about over complicating things!!! We are all agreeing that you have to charge more when they have a gate as opposed to no gate. That is what the OP is asking. The question is how much more??

He is looking for a set amount he can use for his estimating system. There must be an average amount that your quote goes up when you see a gate? Give him a number.
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2013, 10:45 PM
205mx 205mx is online now
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, there mustn't be a set amount because for this to be the case- that would imply that all backyards are the same size. I have some fenced yards that I would use my 36 even If there was a fence.

I have a 36" hydro so the time cut is not that drastic as to someone running a 21" push.

I do have a scenario for you though I have a neighborhood where I service 7 lawns on the street. 5 have no gates. 2 do. I charge them all $40. Maybe the ones with the gate take an extra few minutes... But the employees aren't done blowing anyway so it doesn't make up much time.

Have the appropriate tool for the job,
Tack on a few buck to make up for it.

Typically the gated portion is the back, let's say the back is also usually where a majority of the lawn is. Let's say 70% for an examples purpose.

If the lawn with no gate would be $40,
but the gate around 70% causes you to slow down- charge a little more. $45

X (with gate becomes) Y

35 - 40
40 - 45
45- 53
50 - 57
50 - 60
60-75.

The problem with this ^^^ is that the gated portion may be 70%, 20% or 90%. May have some slope or pitch, may have obstacles or odd shapes.

Hell I don't know man. This is probably something you'll have to figure up on a per lawn basis. I don't think there is a per lawn rule for gates. Just use your best judgment. If it a $40 sized lawn but you expect it to take as long as your $55 lawn in a similar neighborhood- then charge $55.

Having said that my pricing is a tad all over. I make out ok on most, and excellent on some.

Good luck to you
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Last edited by 205mx; 12-06-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2013, 11:54 PM
A. W. Landscapers, Inc.'s Avatar
A. W. Landscapers, Inc. A. W. Landscapers, Inc. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnc19694339 View Post
talk about over complicating things!!! We are all agreeing that you have to charge more when they have a gate as opposed to no gate. That is what the OP is asking. The question is how much more??

He is looking for a set amount he can use for his estimating system. There must be an average amount that your quote goes up when you see a gate? Give him a number.
The estimating system is:

hourly rate times estimated man hours to complete job = price

It is no more complicated than that.

Know your hourly rate
Estimate man hours accurately
Multiple the two numbers and you have the price for that unique job.
__________________
Regards,
Scott
A. W. Landscapers, Inc.
www.awlandscapers.com

Hustler X-One 60"
Wright Stander RH 36"
eXmark 21" ECXKA21 Mower
Stihl FC110 Edger
Stihl FS90 Trimmer
Stihl FS55R Trimmer
Stihl HS56C Hedge Trimmer
Stihl MS391 25" Bar Chainsaw
RedMax EBZ7100 Blower
Earthquake 16" Rear Tine Tiller
Honda 9" Mini Tiller FG110
2014 GMC Sierra Denali HD
7' x 16' Enclosed V-Nose Trailer
6' x 12' Dump Trailer
Equipment & Work thread: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=415830
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:04 AM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. W. Landscapers, Inc. View Post





$60 x 1 hour with a 21" mower = $60 (this is the only equation that matters)

$60 x .5 hours with a 60" mower = $30 (this equation doesn't need to be done because you CAN'T use a 60" mower)





A $60 lawn is a $60 lawn.

If most people do that lawn with a 48" you can not charge more because it took you longer because you only have a 20".

Well you can ask for $120 but the customer will hire the guy with the 48" for $60.

Also the guy with the 60" is a fool to charge $30 because he can do the lawn in half the time.

A fool and a poor businessman because he is leaving $30 of profit on the table. Also running the local market pricing by low balling.
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:20 AM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnc19694339 View Post
talk about over complicating things!!! We are all agreeing that you have to charge more when they have a gate as opposed to no gate. That is what the OP is asking. The question is how much more??

He is looking for a set amount he can use for his estimating system. There must be an average amount that your quote goes up when you see a gate? Give him a number.
There is no set amount to use. There are 30" gates to 5' gates.


It is a judgment call. I had one small gate where I could only use my 20" push. It was a postage stamp sized back yard. So I did not charge extra.

Also when you have a full schedule you can be selective and you can charge a small gate premium. Say $5 or $10 depending on lot sized and tell the customer if they put in a larger gate they would save the small gate charge.

When one is starving one can ignore the extra time it takes because of a small gate because they need the business. Another judgment call.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:32 AM
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easy-lift guy easy-lift guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vld View Post
A $60 lawn is a $60 lawn.

If most people do that lawn with a 48" you can not charge more because it took you longer because you only have a 20".

Well you can ask for $120 but the customer will hire the guy with the 48" for $60.

Also the guy with the 60" is a fool to charge $30 because he can do the lawn in half the time.

A fool and a poor businessman because he is leaving $30 of profit on the table. Also running the local market pricing by low balling.
I believe you are correct. I have actually had several customers asking me to charge less once I converted from my Honda Tractor to my Woods ZTR.
These customers were on One street and were disappointed that I was not willing to lower my price since I just invested $$$$ for the sake of completing their properties faster and in turn I could take on more accounts to earn more based on my ROI after expenses. Never did cotton to low balling prices and ruining local market pricing.
easy-lift guy
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