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  #21  
Old 12-17-2013, 07:49 AM
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grassmonkey0311 grassmonkey0311 is offline
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AW, I think you missed the point of all the responses.
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  #22  
Old 12-17-2013, 08:33 AM
jc1 jc1 is online now
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AW how does one with a few accounts make 60 an hour with no work? Delivering. Flyers pays nothing when doing it but allows marketing at an affordable cost. Once an owner has built up a customer base and work load that provides enough work and income your thoughts become more valid.
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  #23  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. W. Landscapers, Inc. View Post
For the most part I agree with you.

It is the "Hand them out yourself and save a lot of $$" that I am disagreeing with.

If your time is worth $60 an hour and you spend 1 hour hanging doors it costs you $60 to pay yourself and you lost $60 in billable time. That 1 hour cost you $120. A post card costs $0.33 to mail. For $120 you can mail 363 postcards. Can you hang 363 doors in 1 hour?
He is talking about doing this at a time when none of us up North are doing anything Landscape related except maybe bids or estimates for the upcoming season. I just came in from salting a HOA and I have nothing planned for the rest of the day. Most winter days are like this. So I can't see where he would be loosing money when there is no other work to be done.

I would totally agree with you if we were talking about going door to door during the growing season. Most of us hardley have time for estimates then
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  #24  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:36 AM
getdown getdown is offline
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Originally Posted by JonLawn View Post
I've been curious about whether newspaper ads are worthwhile or classifieds for that matter.

Also since I have a registered my business I get all sorts of spam or not calls each day and I have to sort them out. I got a call this morning from a "country club directory" that wants to feature me. I also get the obviously "get your google listed on the first page." Tiresome. Sometimes I even anwser these calls in the middle of a job. Wastin time.
Yes the phone calls are definitely a daily burden
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  #25  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:44 AM
getdown getdown is offline
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AW is making a theological point that makes sense from a management point of view...but is irrelevant if you don't have the business to be charging $60 with the hours. If you don't have the business to be billing time that you are using to hand out door hangers, the opportunity cost is not $60/hour. The opportunity cost becomes the cartoons you are missing by sitting at home (which is offset easily by the cost of postage).

The point AW is making is a real one but the argument is a moot point given the responses to his post that state that people aren't working since there is snow on the ground. AW I understand what you are saying, you're making a lot of text book managerial points but ignoring the context. Can we get this otherwise helpful discussion back on point?
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  #26  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:51 AM
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gulfjoe gulfjoe is offline
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Can we get this otherwise helpful discussion back on point?Posted via Mobile Device[/QUOTE]


How much in advance before the mowing season starts do you normally pass out or mail your flyers?
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  #27  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:52 AM
getdown getdown is offline
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Originally Posted by A. W. Landscapers, Inc. View Post
$60 an hour times 40 hours a week times 52 weeks is only $124,800 a year. You are the president/owner/CEO of your company and you deserve to be paid like one. You're time is worth what you want it to be worth. If you want your time to be "worth nothing" that is your choice.

I'm a business owner and as the business owner my time is THE most valuable in the entire company. I didn't start my own business so that I can make $20 an hour for the rest of my life…I didn't buy myself a job, I'm building a business and I expect my business to compensate me fairly for the effort I put into the business and I expect my business to continue to compensate me well when I no longer have to put in a lot of effort.

If you continue to think of your time as "worth nothing" than that is exactly what you are worth.



You are a solo operator. Every hour you spend putting out flyers is 1 hour that you aren't making your "$60 an hour" in "gross income". If you spend 4 hours putting out 400 flyers, you lost the opportunity to make $240 ($60 x 4 = $240). Now add in your cost for those "2 gallons of gas" and add in the cost of your salary for those 4 hours and you have your cost to "put out 400 flyers" (excluding cost to print flyers). Now take your cost and divide by 400 (flyer)…if that number is greater than $0.33 then it is cheaper to mail than to hand them out yourself…which is what I have been saying.

If you spend all your time putting out flyers, there is no more time in the day to bill clients. If you spend all week putting out flyers, you lost one week of production. As a solo operator, every minute you spend advertising (putting out fliers) is a minute that you don't have available to charge to a client to earn your company money…this expense is part of your advertising costs.

Lastly, I never said don't advertise. If you have a small advertising budget and you choose to INVEST your time to help keep the expenses you will be paying out as low as possible because funds are tight, the time you INVEST has a direct cost to your advertising even if you don't see the dollars moving around…Just because you didn't see the $60 you didn't earn that hour, or the salary you didn't pay yourself for that hour or the $10 you would have paid your employee for that hour if you had an employee to perform this task, doesn't mean those costs (expenses) aren't there.

You have to think of your company as more than just you. How much is your INVESTMENT worth and what is it costing your company when you account for ALL of the company's expenses?
The points are correct in theory but not in context. You clearly have management training, but you are missing the point that the ground is covered in snow. Sometimes you have to lay the management text book down and pound the pavement...especially if you're otherwise hibernating.

I would love to make $125k a year for occasionally counting beans, yes...it's a real incentive to owning and building your own business. But how can you, as someone who is still at a point where they have no employees, not see that (for someone trying to drum up more business to fill their schedule) handing out postcards personally is less expensive than paying someone else to do it...?
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  #28  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:58 AM
getdown getdown is offline
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Originally Posted by gulfjoe View Post
How much in advance before the mowing season starts do you normally pass out or mail your flyers?
Haha good. Thank you. I felt this conversation was beginning to be recent college grads that lack pragmatism but are abound with "education" trying to fight over who can recite more from their textbooks! Rest assured that we all value our time but are still willing to work hard and do what it takes to succeed.

Is January too early to start marketing? Will some people have the foresight to hold on to your cards until spring? At the very least, you are creating brand presence within homes in your target neighborhood...even if they just glance and toss it in the trash. A follow up in the early spring is what I do. But don't discount the quality of what you put out. Some people are pragmatic and will not discount someone who uses printer paper as not being worthy of their lawn...they might envy their utilitarianism or just not judge at all...but others will definitely deselect you from the free market based on your perceived image...these are the same folks that want only shiny lawn mowers on their properties.
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Last edited by getdown; 12-17-2013 at 10:03 AM.
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  #29  
Old 12-17-2013, 11:09 AM
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gulfjoe gulfjoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getdown View Post
Haha good. Thank you. I felt this conversation was beginning to be recent college grads that lack pragmatism but are abound with "education" trying to fight over who can recite more from their textbooks! Rest assured that we all value our time but are still willing to work hard and do what it takes to succeed.

Is January too early to start marketing? Will some people have the foresight to hold on to your cards until spring? At the very least, you are creating brand presence within homes in your target neighborhood...even if they just glance and toss it in the trash. A follow up in the early spring is what I do. But don't discount the quality of what you put out. Some people are pragmatic and will not discount someone who uses printer paper as not being worthy of their lawn...they might envy their utilitarianism or just not judge at all...but others will definitely deselect you from the free market based on your perceived image...these are the same folks that want only shiny lawn mowers on their properties.
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I am a solo part timer mowing operation. I have a small marketing budget, but I do use quality products though. This year I was going to do 2500 door hangers from Adeaes, but I think I am only going to do 1 round of hangers. Probably will hit the streets around Feb 15-March 1.
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  #30  
Old 12-17-2013, 11:20 AM
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A. W. Landscapers, Inc. A. W. Landscapers, Inc. is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpocket View Post
He is talking about doing this at a time when none of us up North are doing anything Landscape related except maybe bids or estimates for the upcoming season.
Having lived most of my life in NY and NJ I total understand that many lawn companies in the north might not have a business model which includes winter related services. This is a lost opportunity. As a solo operator the time you spend working for your business or doing nothing, whether it is handing out flyers at 10:00am on a bright sunny summer day or writing a proposal in your office at 2:00am or sitting on your couch during work hours typing on an internet forum or handing out flyers during the winter when there is snow on the ground represents a direct cost to your company and a lost opportunity to earn income for your business because while you have chosen to do this task you have also chosen not to use this portion of your time to earn income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpocket View Post
I just came in from salting a HOA and I have nothing planned for the rest of the day. Most winter days are like this. So I can't see where he would be loosing money when there is no other work to be done.
That is a choice we make and an investment that we make in our businesses to get more business but the cost of doing it is more than just time because had you had a paying job to go to instead you would have earned income but you lost that opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpocket View Post
I would totally agree with you if we were talking about going door to door during the growing season. Most of us hardley have time for estimates then
And that is how you should always think of your time…If I had a job to do that will earn my company income, would I turn down this opportunity to earn income to go do another business related task that doesn't earn income? If I choose to do this task how much money will I have lost the opportunity to earn?
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