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  #21  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:03 PM
dahammer dahammer is offline
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Originally Posted by ericg View Post
On a charging system, you need battery voltage on the B+ terminal on the regulator to produce charging voltage. Without battery voltage applied, the regulator will not produce dc voltage. You will produce ac voltage from the stator but it will not be rectified without 12v at the B+ terminal. The fuel solenoid would drop out and the engine would stall.
Well there you go then. Thanks. My little 6hp kohler command has both electric start and pull start. It doesn't require a battery. But it also doesn't have a voltage regulator.
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:10 AM
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BigFish BigFish is offline
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Originally Posted by ericg View Post
On a charging system, you need battery voltage on the B+ terminal on the regulator to produce charging voltage. Without battery voltage applied, the regulator will not produce dc voltage. You will produce ac voltage from the stator but it will not be rectified without 12v at the B+ terminal. The fuel solenoid would drop out and the engine would stall.
Wrong!
On some charging systems the regulator does indeed need 12v applied.
Not all do! Think about some of the recoil only engines that power some of the smaller walk behind mowers. Some of em have an electric clutch and no battery, correct?
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:13 AM
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ericg ericg is online now
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BigFish, but would you agree that in this case, the reson for the mower shutting down is the fact that there was no battery voltage to the B+ terminal of the regulator? I have never seen the setup that you are referring to without a regulator. How does the ac voltage from the stator become dc for the clutch? Do they use a diode which is a cheap regulator since the clutch is the only load?

Last edited by ericg; 01-19-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2014, 12:08 PM
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BigFish BigFish is offline
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Originally Posted by ericg View Post
BigFish, but would you agree that in this case, the reson for the mower shutting down is the fact that there was no battery voltage to the B+ terminal of the regulator? I have never seen the setup that you are referring to without a regulator. How does the ac voltage from the stator become dc for the clutch? Do they use a diode which is a cheap regulator since the clutch is the only load?
No, that's not the case at all. His particular Kohler rect/regulator doesn't require 12V to get motivated.

I didn't say the no battery units didn't have a regulator. Most all use a rectifier/regulator to convert the AC to DC.
Most diode only systems offer no current-voltage regulation. (Think B&S powered lawn tractors etc )
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BigFish View Post
No, that's not the case at all. His particular Kohler rect/regulator doesn't require 12V to get motivated.

I didn't say the no battery units didn't have a regulator. Most all use a rectifier/regulator to convert the AC to DC.
Most diode only systems offer no current-voltage regulation. (Think B&S powered lawn tractors etc )
BigFish, we have Walkers with Kohler regulators and on several machines, high resistance on the B+ wire connector between the engine harness and machine harness has caused the mowers to shut down from lack of battery voltage which in turn caused the battery to go dead. If the OP has a different setup, then why would his machine be shutting down once the battery was disconnected? I am looking to learn from this forum as well as others as experienced as you so can you please enlighten me?
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2014, 03:34 PM
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BigFish BigFish is offline
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Look, read posts 4, 16, 19. Youll see the regulator is not the issue here !
Kohler SAM and DSAI ign systems/modules require apx. 12v to function. They usually get this 12V from the machine wiring, not the engine wiring. If the battery is not supplying 12V for whatever reason, the motor dies.
The regulator FEEDS the battery and the bat. feeds the rest of the system. Again, not all systems work like this, some regulators DO have a sensing circuit that needs 12V into it.
As for yer walkers, they died cause the battery wasn't getting charged due to the poor reg. connection.
Kohler manuals are a free download. If ya don't have any actual experience, then get a manual or two and STUDY.

Any questions, call me in the morning! I'm outtahere.
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2014, 04:01 PM
dahammer dahammer is offline
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So it is the DSAI ignition that is requiring 12vdc from the battery. I see in the technical manual the "battery" is listed as part of that system. I presume the conversion that Kohler is now doing back to the magneto coils eliminates the need for the battery. I'd never ran across a small engine that needed a battery before these 2 twin engine Kohlers.
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dahammer View Post
So it is the DSAI ignition that is requiring 12vdc from the battery. I see in the technical manual the "battery" is listed as part of that system. I presume the conversion that Kohler is now doing back to the magneto coils eliminates the need for the battery. I'd never ran across a small engine that needed a battery before these 2 twin engine Kohlers.
Dahammer, I believe that it would be difficult to use a recoil starter on the larger twin cylinder engines thus the electric stater which requires a battery and a means to recharge it. This thread is very informative but has left me with more questions than answers. Thank you to all that have contributed.
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  #29  
Old 01-19-2014, 07:41 PM
dahammer dahammer is offline
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Originally Posted by ericg View Post
Dahammer, I believe that it would be difficult to use a recoil starter on the larger twin cylinder engines thus the electric stater which requires a battery and a means to recharge it. This thread is very informative but has left me with more questions than answers. Thank you to all that have contributed.
I have a 6 HP Kohler Command on a piece of equipment that has both, electric and pull start. But it does not have the DSAI or Smart Spark iginitions. It has an old standby magneto coil. It hasn't had a battery on it in years but starts the 2nd time I pull it every time.

My understanding is that due to the way the DSAI is wired on them, that they require voltage from the battery to fire. Prehaps they could be rewired to where the charging system supplied voltage to the coil as well, then it would run without a battery. I'm not sure, as I don't know much about the system.
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