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  #31  
Old 03-03-2014, 11:17 PM
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RhettMan RhettMan is offline
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Originally Posted by bobw View Post
We do almost exclusively commercial installs on new construction sites (shopping centers, condo complexes, etc) and probably the biggest issue we face with irrigation is finding sleeves a year after they've been installed.

Typically, we install PVC sleeves well before buildings are started and they just lie under ground until we come back to do the installation. By then, the buildings are done, pavement and curbs are down..and all of our survey stakes have vanished.

Anybody have any ideas on how to simplify the issue? We have contemplated using GPS systems, but high cost and the specialized knowledge we'd need to have to use it make it unattractive.

Anyone use detectable tape along the sleeve? or locator balls/disks?

Once we're done our install, we don't care anymore as we'll have an as-built to work from, but when the sleeves go in, there are very few landmarks to measure off of (and we've tried...boy, have we tried)
These GPS units you speak of, are they able to calculate and remember north/south & east/west, cordinates so that one can more easily return to a spot at a later point in time? are they able to also quickly remember elevation differences also? If this what you are describing? BC I need something like that....I think.
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  #32  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RhettMan View Post
These GPS units you speak of, are they able to calculate and remember north/south & east/west, cordinates so that one can more easily return to a spot at a later point in time? are they able to also quickly remember elevation differences also? If this what you are describing? BC I need something like that....I think.
Suppose a map grid could provide an x and y cordinate.
And a lazer level provide a y cordinate.

It would be nice to have a stick that one could place onto the surface of the earth, and have a machine working in tandem with the stick via gps to compute that exact point's east axis cord., north axis cordinate, and elevation. in relation to many other cordinates collected from a "job-site-area"

and then be able to plot on screen a scaled topography image of all the points collected/

using a fire hydrant, or something


P.S.
Would it be odd for someone who owned (what i think was) a magna stick to request that I find their valves with a 521?

Last edited by RhettMan; 03-04-2014 at 12:48 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-05-2014, 12:44 AM
Irrigation Contractor Irrigation Contractor is online now
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I maybe missing something here or the OP has a different scenario we are not used to on our projects.

When we install our sleeves, we also install the PVC lateral or mainline piping along with the wire which is just about always Maxi-wire. At the end of each sleeve we 90 up a stub-out pipe that is 24" plus above final elevation with a cap. Laterals receive a normal 16 gauge PE wire just in case we do need to due further locating. Each stub-out is located for other trades with a few wooden marker stakes, taped off and flagged so if it does get hit we did due diligence.

Our stub-outs do get damaged from time to time and severe damage is charged back to the contractor. We normally have no trouble locating the wire or stub-outs. Sleeves often end up 3' plus deep, so it does not make sense to have to excavate the end of the sleeves plus a cross trench to try an install 3" or 4" main that we all know does not flex.

We also as-built our sleeves during installation from our CAD shop drawings. We also ALWAYS require the developer or GC to stake the curbs and all hardscapes so we know each sleeve is located properly along with extending 12" plus on each end. We are not surveyors or engineers, not to mention civil drawings seem to receive constant revisions.

This process works really well and as much as I love to buy cool gadgets, the GPS units being tossed around would make much more sense for quality as-builds of the entire system than just sleeves.

Like I said, I maybe way off on what the OP is referring too. To be clear, the process I mentioned goes for sleeves that are placed anywhere for a year to a week before our install crews arrive.

Being able cut the stub-out riser and connect rather than excavating each sleeve to push pipe/wire is the main reason we use the process mentioned.

Last edited by Irrigation Contractor; 03-05-2014 at 12:52 AM.
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  #34  
Old 03-05-2014, 01:16 AM
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RhettMan RhettMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Irrigation Contractor View Post

Being able cut the stub-out riser and connect rather than excavating each sleeve to push pipe/wire is the main reason we use the process mentioned.
what exactly do you mean here, i dont quite follow this specific bit ^?

Last edited by RhettMan; 03-05-2014 at 01:21 AM. Reason: economic wire to mark the laterals that is genious!!!!
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  #35  
Old 03-05-2014, 01:29 AM
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RhettMan RhettMan is offline
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Originally Posted by bobw View Post
We have contemplated using GPS systems, but high cost and the specialized knowledge we'd need to have to use it make it unattractive.

(and we've tried...boy, have we tried)

How high cost?
and
why so unattractive? is it more unattractive than attractive?
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  #36  
Old 03-05-2014, 01:47 AM
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RhettMan RhettMan is offline
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what do things look like in the environment that you are describing when you are placing your sleeves long before the installation of this size?

I imagine a bobcat, red bare dirt. new building of somesort. in center of it ....

Your not...clearing trees for example to do this?
how long before concrete forms go up will you usually do this?

what do you do if the 20 ft driveway is relocated post-sleeving & pre installation 10 ft to the left, parrallel direction with sleeve? leaving 11 feet of sleeve vertically covered by driveway, the other 11 feet of the sleeve vertically uncovered by concrete, one end of the sleeve ending at mid-width of driveway basically?

does the GC just call and say "we decided to move the driveway after the inspector came out", you mumble a few curse words after hanging up, and then re-visit for a sleeve extension?

these are extremely interesting descriptions of methods, TY

Last edited by RhettMan; 03-05-2014 at 01:48 AM. Reason: forgot to cross a T.
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  #37  
Old 03-05-2014, 03:05 AM
bobw bobw is offline
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IC - You've got the essence of my problem;

So, if I understand correctly, you're running the pipe to fill the sleeve and/or control wire as well when you install the sleeve. Then you stub up several feet so that it's above grade. Eventually come back and cut the stub down to the correct depth under surface.

Love everything about it other than we'd never be able to back charge when they go missing, and then we'd be out more $ when we can't find them and/or they're destroyed.

I'm going to have to think hard on this... I definitively like the approach tho.

Rhett- a bobcat, 20 acres of dirt, maybe some building foundations, maybe not. A big thing around here is to get the parking lots paved before winter so that construction traffic doesn't have a mud issue on city streets.
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  #38  
Old 03-05-2014, 03:37 AM
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RhettMan RhettMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobw View Post
IC - You've got the essence of my problem;

So, if I understand correctly, you're running the pipe to fill the sleeve and/or control wire as well when you install the sleeve. Then you stub up several feet so that it's above grade. Eventually come back and cut the stub down to the correct depth under surface.

Love everything about it other than we'd never be able to back charge when they go missing, and then we'd be out more $ when we can't find them and/or they're destroyed.

I'm going to have to think hard on this... I definitively like the approach tho.

Rhett- a bobcat, 20 acres of dirt, maybe some building foundations, maybe not. A big thing around here is to get the parking lots paved before winter so that construction traffic doesn't have a mud issue on city streets.
SO THATS how they did target?....that must be some durable pipe, certainly not regular old regular pipe?

if this is to happen, a perfectly synced concrete and irrigation contractor would be key, perhaps even use the same GPS system?
!Ta loco!

are these two wire systems? taking wild guess, i dont understand two wire myself but this type of application it would be ideal it seems,
i mean: the two wire part?

I would really like to see a picture of what your calling a sleeve. (your favorite setup)
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  #39  
Old 03-05-2014, 03:40 AM
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parking..lots
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  #40  
Old 03-05-2014, 03:43 AM
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where are the power and brains at?
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