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  #11  
Old 03-13-2014, 10:51 AM
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Glenn Lawn Care Glenn Lawn Care is offline
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Glystar worked well for me last year. Its slow but effective.
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2014, 11:02 AM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Never tried it. Humic acid ratio is only one once/ten gallons water, then reduce the amount of Gly by 25%. At $26.00 a gal humic acids are pretty cheap. But yes, you can't buy it in a grocery store.
Humic acids also increase the efficiency of liquid ferts.
Do you have any scientific data that you can share suggesting that the addition of humates can reduce herbicide rates and increase liquid fertilizer efficiency?

I ask because I just read a couple of research papers similar to this topic. One paper (Diuron herbicide degradation catalyzed by humic acid compounds: Environmental Chemistry Journal Dec 2013) concluded that humic acid compounds catalyze the degradation of diuron in water. This is confirmation of earlier work (and of our environmental communication) that pesticides degrade in the environment. But, it also suggests that adding humic acids to herbicide solutions could make them less effective.

A second paper I recently read concluded that humic acids reduced plant uptake of imazethapyr, one of the active ingredients in Dismiss South (a product that some on this board may use).

I am actively engaged in testing products for manufacturers, including surfactant manufacturers. I see a lot of claims that different products allow you to reduce herbicide or fertilizer rate, but very few of these claims seem to be backed by scientific evidence. I wish I could try them all out, but there are so many that I just donít have the time or space. I will tell you that the ones I have tried havenít lived up to their claims. If you have some evidence that these claims are accurate, I would love to see it and maybe even begin some research.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2014, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Their is a simple little trick that will increase the efficacy of any systemic pesticide, add a small amount of humic acid and yo can reduce the rate of pesticide by up to 25%.
Skipter

My Snake Oil Comment was pretty much addressing your same point. I just wasn't ready to write a book about it. But Basic Chemistry everyone should know is the pH Scale. Several pesticides will work better as alkaline solutions. Certainty/sledgehammer are perfect examples from alkaline herbicides. I add baking soda instead of acid to several pesticides.

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  #14  
Old 03-13-2014, 12:02 PM
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White Gardens White Gardens is offline
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Back to the RU and Glyphosate debate.

We use Round-Up Pro. I've messed around with other Glyphosate products, and did see a minor, but effective difference in the RU pro over other brands.

How much of a difference? Can't say for sure, but it seemed to be a better kill over-all when using a drift cone and very fine mist spot applications.

Now, one reason I stay with RU pro is that the cost is negligible for a 2 gallon bottle over the course of a season compared to an "off" brand. Basically the 20 dollar or more difference in the grand scheme of our over-all overhead isn't going to make a lick of difference.

So I stick with RU Pro, the added proprietary chems in the solution is worth the cost.


EDIT: Also wanted to state that we use Snapshot in our program along with spot treatments. The Snapshot of course minimizes weed growth and cuts back at least 75% of our spot spraying treatments during the season.



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Last edited by White Gardens; 03-13-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2014, 12:50 PM
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clemsonturf clemsonturf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Skipter

My Snake Oil Comment was pretty much addressing your same point. I just wasn't ready to write a book about it. But Basic Chemistry everyone should know is the pH Scale. Several pesticides will work better as alkaline solutions. Certainty/sledgehammer are perfect examples from alkaline herbicides. I add baking soda instead of acid to several pesticides.

.
Ric- you may need to revisit the MSDS for these products then.
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2014, 01:29 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Yes and 1/5 of a pound of 21-0-0 will decrease Roundup response time by an even great ratio. But then Snake oil will cure cancer and diabetics while saving the environment.

.
I drink snake oil all the time and it has protected me from all cancers. Still on the edge about the diabetes thing.
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  #17  
Old 03-13-2014, 01:33 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Skipster,

I'll look into the research. But have limited access to all the studies. I'm not a scientist nor a researcher.
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  #18  
Old 03-13-2014, 02:21 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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The primary factors that inhibit Glyphosate.
1. pH base of the fill water. High pH water will degrade the AI. Neutral is best.
2. Mixing too heavy. Stay with the recommend rate.
3. Spraying to heavy. Do not soak spray.
4. Drought causes plants to shut down growth. This will hamper intake of the herbicide. If under drought conditions. Irrigate to increase herbicide mobility.
5. Spray lightly. Just enough to coat the leaf surface. Spraying to a drip will cause the plant to shut down. The plant will detect the overabundance of herbicide beyond the water and protect itself from what it detects is not the water.
6. Understanding how environmental sceneries effect how plants react to herbicides.
7. Always use a fresh herbicide mix.
8. RoundUp quick pro is the bomb.
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Last edited by turfmd101; 03-13-2014 at 02:26 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2014, 03:01 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Skipster,

I'll look into the research. But have limited access to all the studies. I'm not a scientist nor a researcher.
If we canít find this information readily available, we should probably be skeptical of the concept.

Iím usually pretty leery of an additive that claims to reduce usage by any type of amount, especially a large one. If an additive improved efficacy, you can bet that the herbicide manufacturer would endorse it in a heartbeat Ė and advertise it heavily. If the additive could reduce the amount needed to be effective, manufacturers would endorse the additive and adjust the price of their product accordingly. If the additive were cheaper than the product (as you indicate humic acid to be here), wouldnít it make sense for the manufacturer to simply include the additive in its package? That would reduce their cost of inputs and reduce their warranty claims.

With as much research is done on these products and all the crazy ideas that are tested in order to improve them, I really donít see how something like this would have been overlooked or passed up.
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  #20  
Old 03-13-2014, 04:17 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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I don't have an answer for that. I'll see what I can find, but it's not high on my list right now.
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