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  #121  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:34 AM
PenningsLandscaping PenningsLandscaping is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreativeLawncareSolutions View Post
You're being kind.

It's an easy entry business with a bunch of idiots who can't add. A gallon of gas costs this. My truck and mower burns that. Add it up, idiot! They can't. They won't. It might as well be Chinese to them. They literally can't do it.
Exactly, there's a massive difference between knowing your cost and just throwing out numbers. The 17.50 an acre blew me away, that's the worst case of low balling I have ever seen.
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  #122  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:38 AM
PenningsLandscaping PenningsLandscaping is online now
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Originally Posted by TPendagast View Post
Well….yes and no.

You have admit in certain geographical areas, the industry is just plain saturated to death…

BUT
Nation wide, there is more work than you (or anyone) cant do, and I have said that before.

Trying to run everyone out of business with a shotgun is semi nonsensical.
You just can't do it all by yourself (although even I try to chase a few companies off from time to time)

IF there was only one company in your area, and you had the market all to yourself, guess what else wouldn't be there?
Vendors.
No multiple dealers to choose from, no fertilizer/plant material dealer…etc etc.

Competition is good, an healthy for economy.

Plus, anytime you get a PIA customer…it's always helpful to have a competitor you can't stand to refer them to. (I also like to send all the employees I fire to them as well)
So so true. Nail on the head.

Trying to chase off competition is a fruitless effort. Every year there's new guys in the area, doing whatever they're doing. I actually enjoy it, because I was taught by the absolute best, and there's nothing more gratifying than doing work that's on a whole other level than your direct competition.

If my direct competition did better work than me I wouldn't have their customers calling me for install jobs. Who cares.
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  #123  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:40 AM
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CreativeLawncareSolutions CreativeLawncareSolutions is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenningsLandscaping View Post
Exactly, there's a massive difference between knowing your cost and just throwing out numbers. The 17.50 an acre blew me away, that's the worst case of low balling I have ever seen.
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All that being said...there's so many customers out there just waiting to be had. Commercial or residential. There's no excuse at all to not be making exactly what you want to make in just a few years time. I love it. It makes you feel good about yourself not having to work for someone else.
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  #124  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:45 AM
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TPendagast TPendagast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreativeLawncareSolutions View Post
You're being kind.

It's an easy entry business with a bunch of idiots who can't add. A gallon of gas costs this. My truck and mower burns that. Add it up, idiot! They can't. They won't. It might as well be Chinese to them. They literally can't do it.
THIS.

right here.

I call it the wet finger estimation method… lick your finger hold it out the window….. uh huh….$50! that's my bid.

Some of these guys try and site 'experience' and skill with 'eyeballing' but it truth they just make stuff up as they go along.

It's more than 50% of the industry.

And when someone comes along that underbids them they get their panties in a twist.

I saw a bid last year for 50 municipal properties.
My number was 57,000.
The winning bid was 50,000

There WERE bids for 44,000 and 48,000 but they were both deemed to be 'irresponsible'

Several of the other bids were 60k-64k
and ONE guy was 116k….Woah what? What did I miss????

That was 11 months ago.

I juuuuuust got to talk to that guy last week. "Hey man, what was up with your number?"

His answer?

I knew I wasn't going to get it, so I didn't spend any time on the bid, I threw a high number out there to make sure I didn't get in trouble, incase for some reason I DID get the bid…BUT what I REALLY wanted was the bid abstract, so I could see where EVERYONE ELSE's prices were at .


Sharp cookie this one.

Just because someone has a higher number, doesn't make it "the right number"

Just because someone has a lower number doesn't make them a lowballer.
If you are licking your finger out the window as you drive by a property at 20 mph and don't put a lot of thought into your price and don't know your numbers.
Someone with a sharp pencil deserves that work more than you.

If you know your numbers, and you put your bet number you could out there, and you STILL got beat… the dude could be operating his business out of grandmas garage.
Doesn;t make his operation "ILLEGAL"
he just has lower overhead than you.

I met this guy once who ran his whole lawn care business off his house boat.

75% of his customers were on an 11 mile long lake.
He could literally take his office and dock it at a customers house.

He kept trucks and equipment in employees driveways.

Dude had stupid low overhead.

nothing he was doing was illegal.
I'm not saying it was the right way to run a business, but it was also not the wrong way either.
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  #125  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:50 AM
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CreativeLawncareSolutions CreativeLawncareSolutions is offline
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Well crap...now I want to mow from a boat.

When my kid gets older I'm moving to a coastal area.
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  #126  
Old 03-29-2014, 01:18 AM
PenningsLandscaping PenningsLandscaping is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPendagast View Post
THIS.

right here.

I call it the wet finger estimation method… lick your finger hold it out the window….. uh huh….$50! that's my bid.

Some of these guys try and site 'experience' and skill with 'eyeballing' but it truth they just make stuff up as they go along.

It's more than 50% of the industry.

And when someone comes along that underbids them they get their panties in a twist.

I saw a bid last year for 50 municipal properties.
My number was 57,000.
The winning bid was 50,000

There WERE bids for 44,000 and 48,000 but they were both deemed to be 'irresponsible'

Several of the other bids were 60k-64k
and ONE guy was 116k….Woah what? What did I miss????

That was 11 months ago.

I juuuuuust got to talk to that guy last week. "Hey man, what was up with your number?"

His answer?

I knew I wasn't going to get it, so I didn't spend any time on the bid, I threw a high number out there to make sure I didn't get in trouble, incase for some reason I DID get the bid…BUT what I REALLY wanted was the bid abstract, so I could see where EVERYONE ELSE's prices were at .


Sharp cookie this one.

Just because someone has a higher number, doesn't make it "the right number"

Just because someone has a lower number doesn't make them a lowballer.
If you are licking your finger out the window as you drive by a property at 20 mph and don't put a lot of thought into your price and don't know your numbers.
Someone with a sharp pencil deserves that work more than you.

If you know your numbers, and you put your bet number you could out there, and you STILL got beat… the dude could be operating his business out of grandmas garage.
Doesn;t make his operation "ILLEGAL"
he just has lower overhead than you.

I met this guy once who ran his whole lawn care business off his house boat.

75% of his customers were on an 11 mile long lake.
He could literally take his office and dock it at a customers house.

He kept trucks and equipment in employees driveways.

Dude had stupid low overhead.

nothing he was doing was illegal.
I'm not saying it was the right way to run a business, but it was also not the wrong way either.
I can't believe two bids were deemed irresponsible. Maybe they didn't have the right insurance? Or is it that the municipality just said there's no way they can do it for that little?

Here in nj from what I understand it's low bid wins no matter what, but they can simply choose to accept no bids, and afterward not accept bids from the lowest bidding company.

This happened when the district I work for wanted to outsource the buses and drivers. Two bids came in over current cost, one came in 400k under current cost.

They thankfully realized that this company's objective was to get them in contract, wait until the district had long let go of the drivers and sold off all it's assets before jacking up the prices to where the other companies were at.
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  #127  
Old 03-29-2014, 09:46 AM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is offline
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Every year theres a new village idiot that tries his hand in state work. This guy litereally bid $7.25 an hour for both worker and manager. It said right on bid sheet.

My family lost their main source of income to a lowballer. And they forever screwed that contract up. Allowed my father to retire before he was 40 with no issues. He was happy

We had 15-30 people there. The guy shows up with 4 people.
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  #128  
Old 03-29-2014, 09:52 AM
Armsden&Son Armsden&Son is offline
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TPen......

Thank you for the example about the fellow on the boat... Perfect example... That is exactly what I was trying to convey myself...

And the whole "illegal" argument came from another fellow....

He was trying to say that no insurance and no license equals lowballer.

This is ridiculous... no insurance and no license equals illegal.

There are plenty of non-legit companies out there making great money.

You may never know that they are not legit (especially if they manage to hide it)
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  #129  
Old 03-29-2014, 11:07 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Location: Kirksville Mo
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Am I a Lowballer
Last year I bid a job
I was 200 cheaper per visit then anybody else
But I done this job for 15 years in the 90s to 05. Then I was knock out. Then later that company closed its doors .
So the job opened back up I'm the only one knows how long it takes.
Every body else is just guessing
So am I a low baller
People around here think I am
Funny part if I knew I was going be 200 lower per visit I would raised mine up 175. I m happy with my price
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  #130  
Old 11-18-2014, 10:22 PM
gdavidson gdavidson is offline
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That is a tough one. I've had situations where a potential customer tells me that they received a quote for mowing much less than what I charge. Thankfully most of my customers are from word of mouth and contact me for the quality of work rather than price. Sometimes it's best to not get a job from a from someone who is solely basing their decision on price as they often tend to be the most high maintenance customers. Depending on how badly they are "low balling" they may not be in business too long. Focus on what you're providing the customer as a professional landscaper and the quality of work. It's frustrating to lose customers and disappointing when you don't sell a job but the cost of doing business is not cheap. I have been upfront with customers and told them that if they want a quality job from a professional company at a fair price to contact me but if they were simply looking to get their lawn cut for the cheapest price possible to call someone else.
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