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  #31  
Old 06-05-2014, 12:21 AM
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Stuttering Stan Stuttering Stan is offline
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As mentioned on the first page, quality has gone down the drain. Irrigation components are not made to stand the test of time. Since they are mass produced and easily replaced, we need to accept that failure will be part of today's systems. Sad but true.
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  #32  
Old 07-17-2014, 07:40 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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DV Solenoid Orings

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Originally Posted by DanaMac View Post
We have been replacing many DV solenoids, and especially the o-rings, this spring. I had to replace one faulty solenoid, 6 leaking orings around the solenoids yesterday, on a 19 zone system. System is less than 2 years old. I've probably replaced 20+ o-rings this spring, and now I have 20+ solenoids with no orings as our suppliers have none from Rainbird. Looks like I will be changing to Hunter or the Irritrol 2400 or 205 for valve replacements, and only stocking the DV for repairs. I'm seeing a lot of RB failures lately, and getting tired of it - issues with new 5004 rotors, and ESP issues. I hope a rep reads this and can get these issues worked on. the solenoid/oring issue has been an ongoing problem, and many people are not happy about it.
DanaMac,
Please let me know who you are so I can have a sales person call on you and get to the bottom of the issues you are having. You can send me an email if you like. rwolfarth@rainbird.com
While we get reports of Orings failing from time to time, we do not get enough samples of failed units to understand the issue. Possibly you and others on this site can help us with that.
Rain Bird is committed to selling the highest quality product. We know we fall short at times and need your help to get back to where we need to be.
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  #33  
Old 07-17-2014, 07:46 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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HV Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
Too bad about the non-rotating 5004's - I thought Rainbird had gotten past that - by any chance are they failing more often on the smaller nozzle sizes? (a feature of the PGP stopped-turning group)

If you did go to Irritrol valves, the 2500TF would make a good choice. You get the advantage of the 2400-type diaphragm assembly in a body with a bonnet held on with cover screws along with a flow control that needs no screwdriver to adjust.
Wet_Boots,
Forgive the sales pitch, but.....
The Rain Bird HV valve also has a nice, now patented diaphragm design that hinges close to make it close more softly. It also has screws, but only 4 of them that take half as many turns to get out with the same thread engagement and strength. The competitor you mention has 8 screws. Twice as many screws that take twice as many turns to get out. Time how long it takes to get the bonnet off an HV (roughly 30 sec.) and the competitor (roughly 2 min. 15 sec.) Now think about how much fun it is to have your hands in a valve box. Let's minimize that time as much as possible and go on to other more fun thngs!
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  #34  
Old 07-17-2014, 07:54 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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HV Valve features

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Originally Posted by ASI View Post
Hey DanaMac,

I hear those HV valves are real good.
Maybe Mr. Wolfarth will pipe in with some info since he is the Principal Product Manager at Rain Bird.He is full good information
I guess I don't check in often enough.
The HV has some great features:
4 captive, multi-drive screws that twist out in half the time;
Patented eccentric diaphragm design that hinges close for softer closing and less water hammer and a captured diaphragm spring for no lost parts in the mud or tall grass;
New solenoid design with a smaller thread that makes it easier to twist out by hand with the need for a handle and optimized design to minimize the copper and make it much less costly;
Stronger glass-filled polypropylene body (not on SXS) with a thin walled design and ribs added to gain strength back which allow shorter cycle time in the molding machine and significantly lower cost;
Lower list price - my shopping tells me that HV is $1 - $2 lower at the distributor counter than Hunter or Irritrol;
It passes ALL the same tests as the DV valve and has a 3 year warranty.
You should try it.
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2014, 07:57 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalLandscapeMgmt View Post
The DV-F costs a dollar more than the PGA. The PGA is a much better valve IMO. I'm not sure why anybody bothers with the DV-F anymore given all of the issues. The DV-F is a perfect example of what happens when a manufacturer tries to wring every last cent out of a product. I guess there is always some product manager who wants to impress his boss by making another 2 cents on a product. Haven't had any issues with the 5000 series or the ESP.
Let me know your issues. We will work them with the intent to win you back to the Rain Bird DV. It has been on the market for 25 years and many have had no issues for decades. I am sorry you have had some. Let's get those resolved. rwolfarth@rainbird.com

If you are interested in low cost, check out our HV valve.
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  #36  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:01 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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DV Solenoid Orings

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARGOS View Post
Hey Guys, I jumped on here to find out what is going on with DVs that I put in a couple years ago and they are failing. I am no longer working in the field...I spend my time at a desk. Regardless I have several customers that became friends and asked if I could look at their valves. They are around 3 years old and more then 50% have O-ring failure. I think this is more then planned obsolescence.
ARGOS,
A few years ago, we did have some issues with roundness on the solenoid bowl on the DV valve (not DVF). We tried different Orings but found we had to change the bonnet material (a cost adder) to fix the issue. That has resolved the roundness issue.
If you are having issues with valves made in the last couple of years, please let me know. We will work to address them.
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  #37  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:11 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Solenoid thread diameter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
Probably one of the reasons the new solenoid on the new valve model has a smaller thread diameter, akin to the less troublesome Hunter solenoid.
Wet_Boots,
The smaller diameter of the solenoid threads was to make the solenoid easier to turn at high pressure. The bottom of the solenoid is exposed to the internal water pressure (of course). Since the force exerted on the solenoid is a function of that pressure times the surface area exposed to it, the smaller the surface area, the less force is pressing on the solenoid. Combine that with the shorter thread length due to the smaller diameter and you get less friction and a solenoid that is easier to turn. The HV (and DV) are rated to operate at 150 psi, so you can imagine that making the surface area about 1/3 the size makes a large difference in the amount of effort it takes to bleed the valve at that pressure.
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  #38  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:13 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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typo alert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
I guess I don't check in often enough.
The HV has some great features:
4 captive, multi-drive screws that twist out in half the time;
Patented eccentric diaphragm design that hinges close for softer closing and less water hammer and a captured diaphragm spring for no lost parts in the mud or tall grass;
New solenoid design with a smaller thread that makes it easier to twist out by hand with the need for a handle and optimized design to minimize the copper and make it much less costly;
Stronger glass-filled polypropylene body (not on SXS) with a thin walled design and ribs added to gain strength back which allow shorter cycle time in the molding machine and significantly lower cost;
Lower list price - my shopping tells me that HV is $1 - $2 lower at the distributor counter than Hunter or Irritrol;
It passes ALL the same tests as the DV valve and has a 3 year warranty.
You should try it.
The comment on the solenoid should read "....without the need for a handle.."
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  #39  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:17 PM
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DanaMac DanaMac is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
DanaMac,
Please let me know who you are so I can have a sales person call on you and get to the bottom of the issues you are having. You can send me an email if you like. rwolfarth@rainbird.com
While we get reports of Orings failing from time to time, we do not get enough samples of failed units to understand the issue. Possibly you and others on this site can help us with that.
Rain Bird is committed to selling the highest quality product. We know we fall short at times and need your help to get back to where we need to be.
I'll respond now before lawnsite removes you for not being a paid sponsor. Or, maybe you are but it doesn't show on your profile. But I appreciate you coming on here to address the issues.

The O-rings have been failing for years, and RB knows it. My rep knows it. My distributor knows it. That's why at a local RB lunch they had an envelope full of o-rings that they gave us. The o-ring has had different colors over the last 5-8 years or so as well, which in my "assumption" is to code what version they are so they can see what is working and what is not. The o-rings either at initial installation, or about 3 years after install, start leaking. This keeps the valves from closing. I've had customers try tightening up the solenoids themselves and they break the whole bonnet of the valve by tightening too much.
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  #40  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:43 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Oring issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaMac View Post
I'll respond now before lawnsite removes you for not being a paid sponsor. Or, maybe you are but it doesn't show on your profile. But I appreciate you coming on here to address the issues.

The O-rings have been failing for years, and RB knows it. My rep knows it. My distributor knows it. That's why at a local RB lunch they had an envelope full of o-rings that they gave us. The o-ring has had different colors over the last 5-8 years or so as well, which in my "assumption" is to code what version they are so they can see what is working and what is not. The o-rings either at initial installation, or about 3 years after install, start leaking. This keeps the valves from closing. I've had customers try tightening up the solenoids themselves and they break the whole bonnet of the valve by tightening too much.
I probably supplied the bag of Orings to the sales rep. So, yes, we get complaints from time to time. We addressed leaks with the change to the bonnet material a few years ago that I mentioned. But I do not understand the current issue you are having. The best help we can get is samples of failed product submitted to the distributor or sales person. They will submit them on a Product Reliability Report. This will cause an engineer to look at your product, report his findings and I will then call you back to discuss them. In this case, just submitting the bonnet with the leaking solenoid will be okay. (Usually we ask for the entire valve because many times issues are related to another part of the product that is not obvious to the customer.)

I would appreciate it if you would do this for us. Thanks in advance.
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