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Old 06-23-2014, 02:59 PM
grassmasterswilson grassmasterswilson is online now
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Celcius/pro sedge mix too hot?

Went back to some lawns that were sprayed over the last 7-10 days and seeing some burning from my spray. Not sure if the heat and humidity caused it or the combination of dew/spray and granular fert.

I'm using a zspray that is calibrated at 15 gpa but going to recheck today. I'm mixing the following...

Celcius at .24 oz per gallon
Prosedge at .05 oz per Gallon
Mso at 1/4 oz per gallon

This mix seems fine on common Bermuda but the hybrids are showing some signs. Hoping the fert and a mow will fix everything.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:28 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Sounds to me like you used the wrong surfactant. The ProSedge label calls for only non-ionic surfactant containing no less than 80% active material. Using MSO can injure turf.

Although the Celsius label says MSO is acceptable for use, Iíve seen phyto from that combination, too.

I think the lesson is pretty clear here: donít use MSO unless the label specifically calls for it. If youíre not spraying Drive, you probably donít need MSO.

The discolored spots should recover, but donít fertilize them Ė that will just make it worse. Give them enough water so they wonít dry out and youíll see improvement in a couple of weeks.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:09 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grassmasterswilson View Post
Went back to some lawns that were sprayed over the last 7-10 days and seeing some burning from my spray. Not sure if the heat and humidity caused it or the combination of dew/spray and granular fert.

I'm using a zspray that is calibrated at 15 gpa but going to recheck today. I'm mixing the following...

Celcius at .24 oz per gallon
Prosedge at .05 oz per Gallon
Mso at 1/4 oz per gallon

This mix seems fine on common Bermuda but the hybrids are showing some signs. Hoping the fert and a mow will fix everything.
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If I use Celsius In a z spray tank mix it is usually for broadcast apps to control crabgrass(high rate) not the medium rate. Metsulfuron will handle just about any other weed listed on the Celsius label other than Fescue. If you are using the mix you just described you must have a lawn with a pretty bad weed problem. Surely you told your customer that there would be some temporary discoloration??? If not, you should have.

Some here might lead you to believe that when done properly, the weeds will die, the lawn never has any discoloration and everything will be "peaches'n'cream". In reality, that is almost never the case...

When using combinations of potent herbicides to control nasty weed infestations, collateral damage should be expected to a degree....by you and the customer. But, the customer has to be informed of this. Set expectations.
I always use the phrase "It's going to look worse before it looks better". That usually prepares them for just about anything and 99.9% of the time there is never a problem.

You shouldn't be performing "Burn & Return" but some damage should be expected with the mix you are using.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:54 PM
ArTurf ArTurf is online now
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When doing post sprays I use more water 1gallon per 1000. Not sure if that would have made the diff but I feel like it gives me more wiggle room if calibration or speed is off a little plus not such a concentrated mix. Maybe just in my head. I know it is more filling and less efficient but I sleep better.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:04 PM
grassmasterswilson grassmasterswilson is online now
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I'm just spot spraying lawns. I've tried them separately and feel it's easier on me to do them together. I'm also trying to use a mix that works on all warm season turf. Ironically the yellowing I have seen is on hybrid Bermuda and not common Bermudez centipede. It is also only on a few which could mean bad mix or adverse weather conditions.

Skip may be onto something. Prosedge likes regular 80/20 but most of us have seen celcius work better with mso.

Ted - I've seen pretty good grassy weed control or suppression with the medium rate although most of the crab i see now is young. I use msm in round 2 at a low rate.

This mix is the best I've found for the most brad range of weeds. Will try 80/20 next time as the mso could be too hot.
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:46 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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Which hybrid? Tifway 419 and 328 are sensitive. I find it hard to apply anything without at least a little discoloration on 328. Tifgrand is some sturdy grass.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:00 PM
grassmasterswilson grassmasterswilson is online now
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Which hybrid? Tifway 419 and 328 are sensitive. I find it hard to apply anything without at least a little discoloration on 328. Tifgrand is some sturdy grass.
Seeing it mostly on 419. None on centipede which I figured would show the first signs.

The bad thing is that I'm spot spraying with the zspray so I step on the boom and have left a few nice yellow squares.

It will grow out but just look bad.

Could the mso in the mix be the problem? I'm guessing the mso made the prosedge too hot. Maybe just go with 80/20 at the same rate next time.


What else is everyone spraying that would work on all warm season turf and get weeds and sedges?
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:41 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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I am using the same things. With the preface that "you have to break a few eggs to make the omelet". I have the good fortune of customers being used to yard people walking around with hot mixes of MSMA or Trimec. So, if I boom spray their lawn with say, Dismiss and Celsius causing the tips of the grass to yellow, they will not get excited. The tips mow off next week. Nothing like the missile test sites left by the old herbicides. The one time I did a lower volume application of Dismiss and Celsius in 20 gallons per acre, I got more browning than if I did it in my usual 40 or 50.

What looks bad is the spot treatment. You would not notice as much if the whole lawn were the same. Celsius is somewhat of a growth regulator. I am suspecting that combining halosulfuron with most other sulfonylurea herbicides creates a hot mix. Tribute Total is the three way package of Revolver, Celsius, and Prosedge. That will yellow a lawn, but not as bad as MSMA would. In the old days, all there was for purple nutsedge control in warm season grasses was Image. That could be a nasty application. When spot sprayed in a lawn, the spot would show up as an area of stunted and purpled or yellowed grass. Took about a month to grow out of it. I only broadcast Image on well fertilized lawns to minimize the discoloration and regulated growth.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:04 AM
ArTurf ArTurf is online now
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For what it's worth I've used a mix of metsulfuron .50 and certainty 1.25 on St Aug with no burning.
Certainty seems pretty forgiving in my experience
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Sounds to me like you used the wrong surfactant. The ProSedge label calls for only non-ionic surfactant containing no less than 80% active material. Using MSO can injure turf.

Although the Celsius label says MSO is acceptable for use, Iíve seen phyto from that combination, too.

I think the lesson is pretty clear here: donít use MSO unless the label specifically calls for it. If youíre not spraying Drive, you probably donít need MSO.

The discolored spots should recover, but donít fertilize them Ė that will just make it worse. Give them enough water so they wonít dry out and youíll see improvement in a couple of weeks.
I don't even use MSO with Drive XLR8, only a non ionic, and it works to perfection. When in doubt, be conservative with your adjuvants.
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