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  #41  
Old 08-16-2014, 11:24 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
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Sounds good. If they weren't lesser machines, they wouldn't be built inferior and cheaper than the swzu.

While we run mostly all Husqvarna handhelds, we still have Echo equipment that's been running for years.
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They are two different achenes for two different purposes. It's not that hard to understand.

Why take an Abram tank when a jeep is more economical?
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  #42  
Old 08-16-2014, 11:27 PM
echo echo is offline
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Originally Posted by whiffyspark View Post
They are two different achenes for two different purposes. It's not that hard to understand.

Why take an Abram tank when a jeep is more economical?
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If/when that machine becomes proven, I will be happy to agree. Until then, I have no use to save a few dollars for inferior, unproven equipment.
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  #43  
Old 08-16-2014, 11:47 PM
PicturePerfectLawns PicturePerfectLawns is offline
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Originally Posted by echo View Post
Sounds good. If they weren't lesser machines, they wouldn't be built inferior and cheaper than the swzu and other compareable machines.

While we run mostly all Husqvarna handhelds, we still run some Echo equipment that's been running for years.
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I don't have time the argue the quality of a machine, I own one, so the difference is I know how it's built, I know how well it cuts. You might consider it a home-owner mower because you say it's built "cheaper." I'm sure all this has to do with you reading an article on ZT-2800 hydro pumps and that's what gave you the idea. But I'll let you know when I got 2k hours on it and update you with how it's running. I'm glad I bought it, and the pumps are much smoother then my "commercial" $900. Kanzaki pumps, and they will dang sure last longer. As far as the ECHO. You said some key words. "We still run SOME Echo." The ones that are running are the older and ya'll switched to husky and don't buy the new ECHO, I now how it goes. Wise move on the switch by the way.
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2014, 11:49 PM
PicturePerfectLawns PicturePerfectLawns is offline
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Originally Posted by whiffyspark View Post
They are two different achenes for two different purposes. It's not that hard to understand.

Why take an Abram tank when a jeep is more economical?
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That's what I don't understand. It sounds like some people are buying walk behinds for brush hogging. If you can buy a walk behind, can't you invest 3k for a brush hog? The SWZT has it's purpose and it serves it well, regardless of what the non-owners say.
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2014, 11:52 PM
echo echo is offline
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Originally Posted by PicturePerfectLawns View Post
I don't have time the argue the quality of a machine, I own one, so the difference is I know how it's built, I know how well it cuts. You might consider it a home-owner mower because you say it's built "cheaper." I'm sure all this has to do with you reading an article on ZT-2800 hydro pumps and that's what gave you the idea. But I'll let you know when I got 2k hours on it and update you with how it's running. I'm glad I bought it, and the pumps are much smoother then my "commercial" $900. Kanzaki pumps, and they will dang sure last longer. As far as the ECHO. You said some key words. "We still run SOME Echo." The ones that are running are the older and ya'll switched to husky and don't buy the new ECHO, I now how it goes. Wise move on the switch by the way.
I look forward to seeing and hearing about 2000 hours. Doesn't just have to with the pumps. Also has to do with thinner steel, Freedom deck, etc...

Actually, it started a few years ago with the 580 blowers and went from there. Still run some Kawasaki stuff, also. Given the choice, I would have no issue running Echo, but IMO Husky makes the best handhelds.
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  #46  
Old 08-17-2014, 12:16 PM
mowingnohio mowingnohio is offline
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Bottom line is that the SWZT is a cheaply built walk behind. Not sure how anyone could argue that?? Motor/pumps/frame/deck/etc all CHEAP! My Scag dealer is awesome and mowed for decades and used Scags since the 80's. He says he is embarrassed they put "commercial" on this WB. I own a SWZ and a ProV. I personally think Scag is hurting their great name putting this out as a commercial mower. This is basically the homeowner freedom WB they discontinued the same time the SWZT came out. Just with new controls and hydros. No mistake they discontinued it the same time these came out. They didn't want those sitting by each other in the showroom. Now way this WB will cut down tall wet grass, stripe, or out last either one of my WB. Like stated earlier if they put these controls on the ProV I would buy one and maybe Brickman would to. If Scag was going to come out with a true commercial unit with these controls they should of done that first. Then came out with the SWZT after the fact as a cheaper option. Not cheapen their brand and what they are known for.

Although the SWZT would be a good option for a new guy starting out that wanting to get his feet wet with limited properties or a guy who uses a rider/stander and needs a WB for a limited amount of properties per week. No way it will stand up to the abuse of mowing 50-100 properties a week high end or not. Just common sense in my book.

P.S. Echo makes quality handhelds. I run nothing but Echo and own 10 different units. Just run quality gas and Echo red armor oil and they are great. Two large LCO's in my area with dozens of crews each agree and run nothing but Echo also. I see them everyday running 770 blowers and 266 trimmers, same as me. But instead of running Scags the run Walkers and Wright Standers.
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  #47  
Old 08-17-2014, 12:43 PM
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TPendagast TPendagast is offline
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Originally Posted by mowingnohio View Post
Bottom line is that the SWZT is a cheaply built walk behind. Not sure how anyone could argue that?? Motor/pumps/frame/deck/etc all CHEAP! My Scag dealer is awesome and mowed for decades and used Scags since the 80's. He says he is embarrassed they put "commercial" on this WB. I own a SWZ and a ProV. I personally think Scag is hurting their great name putting this out as a commercial mower. This is basically the homeowner freedom WB they discontinued the same time the SWZT came out. Just with new controls and hydros. No mistake they discontinued it the same time these came out. They didn't want those sitting by each other in the showroom. Now way this WB will cut down tall wet grass, stripe, or out last either one of my WB. Like stated earlier if they put these controls on the ProV I would buy one and maybe Brickman would to. If Scag was going to come out with a true commercial unit with these controls they should of done that first. Then came out with the SWZT after the fact as a cheaper option. Not cheapen their brand and what they are known for.

Although the SWZT would be a good option for a new guy starting out that wanting to get his feet wet with limited properties or a guy who uses a rider/stander and needs a WB for a limited amount of properties per week. No way it will stand up to the abuse of mowing 50-100 properties a week high end or not. Just common sense in my book.

P.S. Echo makes quality handhelds. I run nothing but Echo and own 10 different units. Just run quality gas and Echo red armor oil and they are great. Two large LCO's in my area with dozens of crews each agree and run nothing but Echo also. I see them everyday running 770 blowers and 266 trimmers, same as me. But instead of running Scags the run Walkers and Wright Standers.


you're missing TONS of information and experience.

Anything used in the new SWZT is an ADVANCEMENT over scags own walk behinds from the 80s!

The freedom deck won't stripe?

and the old square deck from the 80s? the one with no name is some how superior?

PRO V?
Scags biggest failure? Scags biggest joke?
They couldn't give those things away.

SWZU…where is the ultimate?
Extinct.

and for good reason.
If something doesn't SELL they aren't going to make it anymore.

The mower market has changed, Intermediate walk behind ceased being the go to mower. It's the mid mount ZTR now, however dumb that is.
How/WHY did that market GET that way?
By introducing machines that were purpose built/priced for that purpose.

I give you Hustler Fast track, Scag Tiger Cub, Lazer Z Hp…. ALL lesser versions of their main commercial line.
This was followed shortly there after by the home depot style ZTRs like the toro time cutter, whatever that thing husky made and the JD EZ trak.

Scag's SWZU doesn't sell, they actually cancelled the PRO V when adding the V Ride and scag didn't have a 'previous version' of the SWZT that was non commercial, your dealer is telling you luckiness monster stories.

When the Tiger Cub came out it was nearly laughable…but scag sold the crap out of them, and I still run one daily with 1600 hours on it. Did the frame fail? no.
Did the deck crumple in?
No.

Does it break a lot now? Yea, kinda… there is something minor on it every week it seems.. but nothing the keeps it out of production very long at all.
would I have bought it on day one, when the Turf Tiger was the "It" for scag riders?

Uhhh no.


Scag knows the market, there is no room to sell an SWZU right now.
Scag isn't in the business of selling ego mowers.
They are in the business of selling mowers people want.
If they put SWZT controls on an SWZU right now no one would buy it, because it would be in the price range of a Vride or a Tiger Cat.
Then it would sit there, on the show room floor and cost the company money, like the SWZU ALWAYS has , from day one!
If and when they get enough if these SWZT controls out there, and they get popular, and the brewing return on the intermediate walk behind market comes about (as I have been saying for over a year now, and trade magazines are starting to buzz about) THEN you will see the return of the SWZU most likely with the ZT style controls as an option.
But ONLY when consumers WANT it, and will buy it!
I predict it will only be a few model years before it happens and I thin you'll see a surge of brickman interest. (but to be honest there isn't going to BE a big difference between the machine you see now and the one in a few years)

And wether posters here like it or not, the guy pushing the broom at metalcraft knows more about metallurgy and hydro motors than the people here.
Scag put a commercial name and warranty on the machine, they aren't about to go out of business with a crappy machine they will have to warranty the heck out of.
They know what they are doing.

Im sure they found a broom to push for the guy that came out with the Pro V controls.


Oh and by the way, the Deck heigh adjustment for the SWZT is miles better than anything that was every attached to the SWZU.
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  #48  
Old 08-17-2014, 12:49 PM
echo echo is offline
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Lots of guys getting into the business all looking for "a cheap hydro machine". Absolutely, enter the swzt. That's who it's catered to...and it's a cheaper replacement to guys in the business.
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  #49  
Old 08-17-2014, 02:23 PM
mowingnohio mowingnohio is offline
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Jezzz TP alot to respond to.

1. Simply saying my dealer takes pride in the quality and rugged build of his products. Nothing about the old square deck being superior to the velocity deck or anything about the square deck at all.

2. I believe there is a market for heavy duty built adjustable deck walk behinds with ergonomic controls. Just seems to me in my area at least Exmark has it cornered with the turf tracer. Scag has most definitely has not been able to deliver and take market share from them. In may area at least. Not claiming to know the whole world market. Just my humble opinion for my area and needs, which I am sure is similar to others out there in my position.

3. Couldn't agree more if something doesn't sell good like swzu/prov is why the manufacture pulled the plug.

4. Just saying the homeowner belt drive freedom WB had the same deck and frame quality. Hydros vs belt, New controls vs pistols different story.

5. I see Tiger Cubs out working daily and never heard to many bad stories about them, but sure there is nightmare stories out there since there was so many sold. I am sure plenty of good experiences with them also. The Tiger Cub frame and deck was built to the quality of these SWZT's? I own a Turf Tiger, but I rarely use it anymore and will probably trade it for a V Ride soon. Was a mistake buying a rider for my area and properties. But I will get back to the topic of WB.

6. When I got my Pro V I absolutely hated it. I forced my self to put at least 100 hours on it before getting rid of it. Mainly bought because I wanted the floating adjustable velocity deck so badly on a WB with ergonomic controls. It was a huge learning curve but I have finally mastered the controls. I can absolutely see why these controls failed. Let alone the sensors in the grips were a total nightmare (total flop). Now with the updated manual handle it is no problem in that aspect. My hands and wrist thank me for it now also. I totally see why the failed and Scag should of never made them. But I am glad they made them and I got my hands on one.

7. Not sure how you can compare the velocity to the freedom deck?? I am sorry I like to have a commercial deck on a WB that can hold up and leave a beautiful cut on any type of lawn in my area. Heavily fertilized, weedy lawn or anything between. Never said the freedom wouldn't stripe, but won't out stripe my velocity decks.

8. I like the height adjustment on my Prov V, same as on the V Ride. I guess I am the only guy that prefers prefers high quality I guess again on my WB? Maybe next they will change the V Ride to that style..lol

9. Talking in circles now about Brickman?? So the SWZT in a few years now will be better built for them?? I don't get what you are trying to say there?? To much double talk for me to follow there.

10. The comment about the Pro V guy pushing the broom was very funny...thank you honestly for the good laugh.
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  #50  
Old 08-17-2014, 02:32 PM
mowingnohio mowingnohio is offline
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Oh I forgot, wanting a quality Scag WB similar to a Turf Tracer is having a huge ego?? I guess I am guilty. Again sign me up for a Pro V with these new controls.
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