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  #91  
Old 08-28-2014, 12:32 PM
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1idejim 1idejim is online now
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Originally Posted by Without A Drought View Post
now that would be cool.

on a similar thread, where is the hunter tek geek?
.
HTG is a personal friend of mine, I can swear that the time he allows this fine forum is limited by an intense workload. HTG is in a state of perpetual motion when it comes to serving this industry, between customer education and putting up with me, he's swamped.
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  #92  
Old 08-28-2014, 03:20 PM
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Mike Leary Mike Leary is offline
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When I got certified for Maxi-Com, we spent a lot of time on grounding, including two wire. A big deal.
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  #93  
Old 08-28-2014, 03:39 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike Leary View Post
When I got certified for Maxi-Com, we spent a lot of time on grounding, including two wire. A big deal.
And an area that is done poorly most often. Headaches to follow.
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  #94  
Old 08-28-2014, 04:30 PM
enorl76 enorl76 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
Sorry. Rain Bird's designs are proprietary and we don't share them outside the company. You can imagine that our competitors would love this also. Let them buy them and tear them apart.
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As if its difficult to buy them and tear them apart...

Your design is protected via copyright and patents, right? Publishing how to interact with your products makes them more valuable, not less...

Just saying! A much larger company with intellectual property called Microsoft subscribed to this thinking, and have almost completely reversed course...

People/companies pay for well-designed products and support, and would shun a cheaper product copied from a well-established company known for support... aka Rain Bird...
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  #95  
Old 08-28-2014, 05:29 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Originally Posted by enorl76 View Post
As if its difficult to buy them and tear them apart...
I didn't mean to suggest it would be hard, only that there is no sense in just handing it to them.

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Originally Posted by enorl76 View Post
Your design is protected via copyright and patents, right? Publishing how to interact with your products makes them more valuable, not less...
Intellectual property right protection only goes so far. Trade secret protection (if you truly treat it like a trade secret) can be much more durable. Think Coca-cola and their 'secret recipe.' If they had patented that, the patent would have expired generations ago and everyone would have it.

Also, publishing all the technical data on how to use and service a product is different than publishing electrical schematics which may reveal trade secrets on how the device does what it does. I understand the curiosity, but if the information is not needed to be able to use and service the product, we feel it is best to not publish it.

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Originally Posted by enorl76 View Post
Just saying! A much larger company with intellectual property called Microsoft subscribed to this thinking, and have almost completely reversed course...
I am certain Microsoft had great reasons for what they did.

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Originally Posted by enorl76 View Post
People/companies pay for well-designed products and support, and would shun a cheaper product copied from a well-established company known for support... aka Rain Bird...
Rain Bird products are copied and people buy the copies.
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  #96  
Old 08-28-2014, 07:34 PM
SoCalLandscapeMgmt SoCalLandscapeMgmt is offline
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Originally Posted by enorl76 View Post

Your design is protected via copyright and patents, right? Publishing how to interact with your products makes them more valuable, not less...
Why would Rain Bird want their competitors to be able to make products that interact with theirs? That benefits nobody but the competitor. There would be no advantage for Rain Bird to disclose their two wire decoder protocol to the public. I don't think that there is much need or call for open source two wire decoder systems. There are what... maybe 4 or 5 companies in the game? Some of the work well some are crap. Anybody with a basic knowledge of electronics can surmise exactly how a decoder system works.
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  #97  
Old 08-28-2014, 07:37 PM
SoCalLandscapeMgmt SoCalLandscapeMgmt is offline
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never mind the fact that if you spend millions of dollars developing a product there is no advantage to just handing over the details of it's inner workings to everybody who wants it!
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  #98  
Old 08-29-2014, 12:44 AM
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1idejim 1idejim is online now
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Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
I am unfamiliar with this technique. The fact that I have never heard of it before (I am sure it works great) suggests to me that few would buy this. So, even if we decided it was simply a good tool to provide for free to customers, it would likely fall so low on the priority list of things to assign to engineers to work on that it would never get done.

I know this is not the answer you were hoping for, but it is reality.
You've prolly never heard of it because I'm the guy that thunk up drilling out a solenoid and attaching an air fitting for inducing air to find leaks. Yes it does work great. I kinda knew what kind of response I'd get but we are seeing more TDR's in use, as well as shop vacs and a few other ideas that have seen ridicule on this forum.

The major players should have someone that can think outside the box in their employ (you maybe) that takes a hard glance at the shortcomings of ALL irrigation systems and listen to the end users that feel that there is a need for simple time saving ideas that may be manufactured Inexpensively using existing dies and molds.

Company priorities and phyllosophy be damned, the little guys are the backbone of the major players market base, let's see one of these players step up.
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  #99  
Old 08-29-2014, 12:24 PM
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Wet_Boots Wet_Boots is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
This is again outside my area of expertise, but I know enough to know that the protocols used have a significant affect on performance. So, this is not likely something that would be shared and standardized in our industry.
This question comes from the revelation that the DV solenoid isn't entirely 2-wire compatible. Just where this yes/no line happens to be would be important to repairmen who might want to install a controller upgrade that includes switching some zones on DV valves from conventional to 2-wire operation.
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  #100  
Old 08-29-2014, 12:37 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
This question comes from the revelation that the DV solenoid isn't entirely 2-wire compatible. Just where this yes/no line happens to be would be important to repairmen who might want to install a controller upgrade that includes switching some zones on DV valves from conventional to 2-wire operation.
I am sorry I was not clear. The DV Valve is not at all compatible with two-wire systems. Do not ever use them. I was trying to say before that even though it may be found to work from time to time, it is not reliable over time and it most likely will fail. Maybe some have experience that suggests this is not as absolute as I am stating here. But Rain Bird does not recommend DV valve solenoids to be used on a two-wire system ever.
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