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  #11  
Old 02-16-2001, 08:13 AM
SLSNursery SLSNursery is offline
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: West Haven, CT
Posts: 442
Wow, I hope you vented everything

I guess there is always a place for negotiation, but here is how I see it, you are talking about spending between 32-40k per year to this potential employee, and all you have described in your post is what you will do for him. It sounds to me like you need stress what job requirements and goals the employee will have, otherwise he is going to continue this habit, and negotiate with you all year round on every issue until he is sitting in a chair doing nothing all day.

He has been with you for 2 years, not 10 or 20. I'm not saying that time buys more respect, but in this case, it does not appear that this particular employee is helping further YOUR cause. Let him shop the package that he wants with a few of the other companies in your area. If you let him go with an open door policy, you can accept him back, on YOUR terms. It sounds like you can handle the management responsibilities that he is supposed to anyway, so why not buy two 20k laborers for yourself and spend more time managing?

Furthermore, how are you going to respond when he asks for another 30% raise next year? What else can you give this guy or others?
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Soundview Landscape Supply - http://www.soundviewlandscape.com
Ivy League Landscaping - http://www.ivyleaguelandscaping.com
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2001, 08:32 AM
Mike Nelson Mike Nelson is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fishkill,New York
Posts: 416
Well I had a employee in a similar situation.I made the tough decision to let him go and it turned out to be one of the best moves I ever made in business.
It is a tough decision to make,but being a nice guy in business is not going to put money in your pocket.
The funny thing was my guy was grossing about 35k a year and always complaining and upsetting the crews. I replaced him with a guy who does ten times his work with not one compaint.Cost me about 50k a year for the new guy,but it is the other best move I had ever done.
Good Luck
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2001, 08:46 AM
MJM MJM is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Baltimore Md
Posts: 48
SLS NURSERY,
Thanks for the reply!

Your right I didnt explain his responsibilties in my post and that was only because I saw that it was getting rather long. He does know what we expect from him and to be honest it really is not a whole lot.

I also realize that there is room for negotiations but, we feel that his performance did not warrant a raise of any kind. ( remember I did ask him why he felt he deserved this and he could not tell me) If he was able to explain himself then maybe negotiations were possible. Secondly, we DID give him a raise anyway. The reason we did this is because we are basically starting off new. We do take some responsibilty for what went on last year and that is why we are making changes. The changes will benefit the employee tremendously.

Your right he does not appear to be helping our cause. We explained to him that everything we were doing was going to benefit the employee's. We built an employee room this winter and for the first time we will be having weekly paid training meetings for all empoloyee's. We also told him that we will no longer hire anyone untill HE interviews them. We are trying to get everyone involved. We knew when we changed over to this new system that we would lose some people and thats alright. In the long run it will make us a stronger company. We told him he could go look else where if he felt he could get what he was asking for or if he felt we were unfair. We were very nice and professional about it. I really doubt he could get what he is asking for, I could be wrong. I dont see him as ever running more than 1 crew. We will (are) willing to train him to move up in the company but it does take two.

Now the other problem with this is, Do we really want him back if he should chose to stay? Whats his attitude going to be if he feels we are taking advantage of him? I can say with all honesty that I beleive we are being MORE than fair with him, but then again I could be wrong!

BTW: It's now 8:30, no call no show.... day 2, suppose to be in by 8:00.

Mark A Musolf

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  #14  
Old 02-16-2001, 09:00 AM
MJM MJM is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Baltimore Md
Posts: 48
I feel I must add this:
I am not opposed to paying high salaries if they are warranted. I just don't feel that he deserve's it and like I said he couldn't tell me why either.
Oh the fun never ends being self- employed!!

Mark A Musolf
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2001, 10:05 AM
Mike Nelson Mike Nelson is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fishkill,New York
Posts: 416
Mark,
After reading your posts I honestly thought you had my old employee working for you.
I sometimes felt that his wife was working for us.She made all his decisions,telling him he needs to make more money,and he always needed time off to go away on vacation.
Thanks for the bad memories
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2001, 10:41 AM
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Stonehenge Stonehenge is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,277
Does this guy have a bonafide offer from another company, or wage data to support his request? If he doesn't (and that's what it sounds like), I'd never consider paying this.

After no calls/no shows and holding you over the coals for such a huge pay increase, I'm surpised he didn't need surgery to remove your boot from his behind.

This sounds like a guy that will always be playing you for more money. With the cooling economy, there may be a larger pool of people to hire from, which drops his stock considerably. So show him the door, and if/when he asks to come back later in the season, offer him less than he's making now.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:46 PM
John Allin John Allin is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 1,489
Bend over... guess who's driving by the "feel"....

Man O Man.... I was burned just READING this whole thing... I can only imagine the frustration actually being there going through it.....

We have 50+ employees. I think you gotta take a stand. We finally put together a pay rate scale based on job position/title/description. You can't get past the upper end of the pay scale unless you do something (get promoted, get educated, buy into the company....). Everybody knows the range for their job. End of discussion.

Still creates some problems, but not nearly as many...

BTW - just kidding on the "buying in" crack.....

MJM - I think we're all "feeling" for you. We've all been there in some way or another (although probably not to the exent you've just experienced).

Good luck dude....
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:51 PM
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65hoss 65hoss is offline
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Location: Memphis, TN
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come on John, I was already getting the checkbook out.
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2001, 01:35 PM
Mike Nelson Mike Nelson is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fishkill,New York
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65hoss
I was ready to buy in also,John don't joke like that.

Can't wait till they go public,hope he lets us in on it when he does
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