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  #11  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:46 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dKoester View Post
Everyone needs education, including me. Don't take offense so quickly.
Agreed,,, we can all benefit from intelligent discussion... I feel sorry that there are a bunch of people killing 20 plugs of fescue per sq.ft. with very little chance of getting more than 50% of that area back... what they are likely to have is weeds or dead barespots when they Pre-M in the Spring...
That is why I put out the question about Fescue Aeration... Is that question now lost to the intelligent discussion???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2013, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Agreed,,, we can all benefit from intelligent discussion... I feel sorry that there are a bunch of people killing 20 plugs of fescue per sq.ft. with very little chance of getting more than 50% of that area back... what they are likely to have is weeds or dead barespots when they Pre-M in the Spring...
That is why I put out the question about Fescue Aeration... Is that question now lost to the intelligent discussion???


EVERYBODY here aerates and seeds in the fall and ALL of our grass is fescue. Here in the transition zone it gets to hot and dry in the summer for KBG and to cold in the winters for southern turf. A few zoysia lawns around here and they are drop dead gorgeous in the dead of summer but they green up 1 1/2 months later and go dormant a month before fescue lawns so southern turf does not look good or work very well here. So that means we are pretty much stuck with TTTF. The problem is even the TTTF gets weak and some will die out EVERY summer no matter how tall or how well you maintain it.

So how do you fix the now weak looking TTTF lawn? You aerate and seed it heavy and put down a strong starter fert at the same time. You obviously get great seed germination in the holes but as the plugs break down you will also get seed germination under the broken down soil so the weak areas do fill in very nicely.



Here is an example from last fall at my own home.






Here you can see it is still very young but filling in.






Here you can see where that whole area was dead. I had set something on the lawn there for a couple days and forgot about it and it hammered that large spot. That spot filled in completely once it all came in and matured.






This is what I used as an experiment and I really like this blend.





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  #13  
Old 09-04-2013, 12:17 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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You'd get better spread of germination with a slit seeder, rather than saying these germinating holes are good enough... my contention is that if these holes don't provide germination then what??? Why risk killing the existing fescue for some possibility of new seed??

Now if you need to aerate because of heavy clay compaction, then there is little choice,,, but to aerate for a seed bed is odd, in the sense it doesn't provide the best environment for seed that is available...

Pix,,, that work for these "Demonstrations" would be best if shot straight down after mowing... It shows how much open dirt there really is...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
You'd get better spread of germination with a slit seeder, rather than saying these germinating holes are good enough... my contention is that if these holes don't provide germination then what??? Why risk killing the existing fescue for some possibility of new seed??

Now if you need to aerate because of heavy clay compaction, then there is little choice,,, but to aerate for a seed bed is odd, in the sense it doesn't provide the best environment for seed that is available...

Pix,,, that work for these "Demonstrations" would be best if shot straight down after mowing... It shows how much open dirt there really is...

Nobody around here slit seeds. You are right it does do a little better job of filling in a lawn but it is a pain in the azz slow process and very few people around here are willing to pay for it. We have done it before on a 1/2 acre bare area for a customer and the results were phenomenal and it filled the entire lawn in thick with one shot.

My thoughts on it are lawns that have vast dead areas would be better off slit seeding. Well established lawns a good core aeration and over seeding and starter fert is all that is needed to maintain a thick healthy lawn. The cores allow air, oxygen, nutrients and water to get down to the roots easily. Plus you are introducing fresh new cultivars into the lawn. Around here the soil is very hard packed. So packed in fact sometimes it is almost to hard for the cores to penetrate and pull plugs.


Here is my lawn this spring. I aerated and used the tall fescue/Thermal blue blend last fall along with a heavy starter fert. No need for me to ever slit seed my lawn. Every fall I get some weak areas from heat and dry conditions but a core aeration and seeding always brings those areas right back.



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  #15  
Old 09-04-2013, 12:56 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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I agree that core aeration is good for the soil and root zones... if aeration is needed for that then overseeding the holes is about the only thing to do... and you have good results and that's cool,,, no argument there, becuz it is obviously being accomplished...

My only comment is : aerating for the sole purpose of seedbed, is misguided, especially when w/out irrigation...

Nice lawn...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #16  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I agree that core aeration is good for the soil and root zones... if aeration is needed for that then overseeding the holes is about the only thing to do... and you have good results and that's cool,,, no argument there, becuz it is obviously being accomplished...

My only comment is : aerating for the sole purpose of seedbed, is misguided, especially when w/out irrigation...

Nice lawn...

Yeah our area is interesting. Most summers we get some hot dry spells and every lawn goes down hill pretty bad even when we cut them at 4"+. This year however was our 4th wettest ever and everything was muddy and soft all year up until about 3 weeks ago. Since then we have had very little rain and in 3 weeks time everything went from growing out of control and everything being soft and muddy to everything is burning up and I am cutting in a dust bowl. I am seriously covering my mouth and nose at times it is so dry and dusty. Right now the ground is hard as concrete. Our soil seems to get super hard and compacted every year so aerating really helps with that.

One of our cutting customers had a new independent (not a big name company) fertilizer guy start doing his lawn. He asked us but we kept refusing because we already knew no matter what we do it will never look good come the next summer. The new guy did slit seed it and boy was it beautiful!!!! So thick and lush it was unreal! Here we are at the end of summer the next year and all the areas we told him would not survive is deader than a door nail. Last week he stopped to talk to us while we were cutting and he admitted we were right. We told him you cant have that many small tree's and landscaping encroaching on the lawn and expect the lawn to survive (wayyyyyyyy too much shade in areas).


But the slit seeding did do wonders for the lawn for a short period of time. I doubt he has it done again this fall. I bet he just has the guy aerate and seed it to get it to fill back in some now that he knows most of it will die out next summer anyway.
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:42 PM
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DA Quality Lawn & YS DA Quality Lawn & YS is offline
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I slice seed all my renovation jobs in existing turfstands, except bare dirt of course which is broadcasted and mulched. I cannot reduce myself to doing the Trugreen way which is aerate then fling a little seed over the top.
Just does not seem responsible to me. I would rather charge more for a much better germination rate.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:15 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProStreetCamaro View Post
Yeah our area is interesting. Most summers we get some hot dry spells and every lawn goes down hill pretty bad even when we cut them at 4"+. This year however was our 4th wettest ever and everything was muddy and soft all year up until about 3 weeks ago. Since then we have had very little rain and in 3 weeks time everything went from growing out of control and everything being soft and muddy to everything is burning up and I am cutting in a dust bowl. I am seriously covering my mouth and nose at times it is so dry and dusty. Right now the ground is hard as concrete. Our soil seems to get super hard and compacted every year so aerating really helps with that.

One of our cutting customers had a new independent (not a big name company) fertilizer guy start doing his lawn. He asked us but we kept refusing because we already knew no matter what we do it will never look good come the next summer. The new guy did slit seed it and boy was it beautiful!!!! So thick and lush it was unreal! Here we are at the end of summer the next year and all the areas we told him would not survive is deader than a door nail. Last week he stopped to talk to us while we were cutting and he admitted we were right. We told him you cant have that many small tree's and landscaping encroaching on the lawn and expect the lawn to survive (wayyyyyyyy too much shade in areas).


But the slit seeding did do wonders for the lawn for a short period of time. I doubt he has it done again this fall. I bet he just has the guy aerate and seed it to get it to fill back in some now that he knows most of it will die out next summer anyway.
The only problem with too much shade is too much water, too much fertilizer and generally cut too short... once a lawn is correctly seeded to be as rich and full as it can be, the next step is to employ the best cultural practices to keep it that way...
It almost sounds as though it doesn't pay to get a good thick stand becuz it will decay the following year anyways... Aeration for seed bed is "Good Enough"...

I have had less and less over seeding to do each year in the lawns I have total control over and aeration is not necessary for those lawns, so now days I do everything with a "Garden Weasel" and small amounts of compost...

Your clay, of course, may need to be aerated regardless of thickness of stand,,, but,,, NOT for reason of a seed bed...
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