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  #111  
Old 09-03-2014, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
I am sorry I was not clear. The DV Valve is not at all compatible with two-wire systems. Do not ever use them. I was trying to say before that even though it may be found to work from time to time, it is not reliable over time and it most likely will fail. Maybe some have experience that suggests this is not as absolute as I am stating here. But Rain Bird does not recommend DV valve solenoids to be used on a two-wire system ever.
Does this incompatibility extend to the devices, like the Doubler or Expander that exist to overcome a wiring fault/deficiency, where one station wire in the field is used to actuate more than one zone?
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  #112  
Old 09-03-2014, 10:53 AM
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The Doubler

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Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
Does this incompatibility extend to the devices, like the Doubler or Expander that exist to overcome a wiring fault/deficiency, where one station wire in the field is used to actuate more than one zone?
Good question. I don't know. (I have not heard of the Expander, but I assume it is a similar device.)
I personally have not heard complaints from customers on these products. This makes me think there is a chance they are okay, but Rain Bird has not expressed an opinion on this.

I don't know exactly how they accomplish what they do. I assume they pass through the full power on the circuit to the first valve and then toggle to the next valve on the next cycle. If so, I imagine they have a chance of working. For a more definitive answer, contact the manufacturer. I would think they have done the necessary testing to show they work on the valves on the market. Since DV is the top selling valve, I am sure they would have tested it.
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  #113  
Old Yesterday, 11:23 AM
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Request: What Valve Electrical Data is Needed?

We have tested again our residential valve products for electrical characteristics to publish. It has been many years since we last did this on DV and ASVF valves and it is time. There have been some changes to the HV solenoid and that drove some change, but the DV and ASVF have not changed at all.

Is the information we publish adequate? For what purpose is the information needed? If more is needed, what need does it serve? How often is it used? Is there information presented that is not used at all?
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  #114  
Old Yesterday, 12:01 PM
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How much variation do you get in measurement results? Some of what shows up in field measurements surprises me a bit, especially any variations in DC resistance measurements, based on an assumption that each solenoid will have the same amount of wire wound up in it.

It probably asks for trouble, but there might be some point in having a "must operate" minimum applied voltage, for a solenoid, but any extra info can get too "techy" if you also include supply pressures in any "must operate" info. (this last refers to the original S24B solenoid from Weathermatic being described as working on 12 Volts DC, provided supply pressure didn't exceed 75 psi)
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  #115  
Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
How much variation do you get in measurement results? Some of what shows up in field measurements surprises me a bit, especially any variations in DC resistance measurements, based on an assumption that each solenoid will have the same amount of wire wound up in it.

It probably asks for trouble, but there might be some point in having a "must operate" minimum applied voltage, for a solenoid, but any extra info can get too "techy" if you also include supply pressures in any "must operate" info. (this last refers to the original S24B solenoid from Weathermatic being described as working on 12 Volts DC, provided supply pressure didn't exceed 75 psi)
Just going from memory, we get less than 5% difference from coil to coil. Actually, I think it is even less. Of course, we test them in a lab, not installed in the ground, so we remove all other sources of variation. I don't recall that we see any more or less variation with AC versus DC solenoids. The amount of windings on any given solenoid varies only slightly. We wind these pretty quickly and the machinery has some variation, I am sure. I am also sure there is variation depending on the quality of the connections inside the solenoid.

We offer on the website maximum wire length runs based on different operating pressures. (This was in the catalog for residential/light commercial valves until very recently. It is still in the 2014 catalog for commercial valves. That will possibly go to the website in 2015.) We could add there the minimum voltage. I forget if minimum voltage requirements change with different operating pressures. The 24 VAC listing shown in the catalog is nominal. Actual minimum voltage required is less than this. We show this so users know to not apply 120 volts. If we show minimum voltages, of course, I will make this all clear in the data. And since it will be on the website, it will be easier and faster to change to improve accuracy, clarity and completeness.
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  #116  
Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM
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The main reason for max and min requirements are geared toward design and troubleshooting Ron. Albeit the majority of systems are designed on the installers past practices and the favorite brand of test equipment is "NONE", a few hardcases believe that working smart is still the way to go.

Personally I would like to see more hydraulic / electrical test results made available for all products. I read my field testing results like a map, using the results to lead me in the proper direction.
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  #117  
Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
The main reason for max and min requirements are geared toward design and troubleshooting Ron. Albeit the majority of systems are designed on the installers past practices and the favorite brand of test equipment is "NONE", a few hardcases believe that working smart is still the way to go.

Personally I would like to see more hydraulic / electrical test results made available for all products. I read my field testing results like a map, using the results to lead me in the proper direction.
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Thank you. Your comments fit my perception perfectly. This is good confirmation.
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  #118  
Old Yesterday, 01:36 PM
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Minimum must-operate voltages would increase with pressure, according to one data page I stumbled upon some years back. (sorry, I never bookmarked it, being these were 'standard' 3/4x20 thread solenoids used in pneumatic control applications, with even more data that made reference to the size of the orifice where the plunger seated))
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