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  #11  
Old 09-24-2012, 11:01 AM
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starry night starry night is online now
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Ken, I would hope maybe you would reconsider your decision to no longer contribute to the forum. You could be selective, couldn't you, and chime in when you could assist on a subject.

I agree with what you said about the forum changing. When I first started here I read 90% of the threads starting at the very beginning. (Those early threads and "characters" on here were surely entertaining!) As the forum matured it did offer a wealth of helpful information from the designer/contractors here. But now? I wonder what others think.
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  #12  
Old 09-24-2012, 03:53 PM
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emby emby is offline
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Thanks Phil.
Steve,
I just placed this in this thread because it was easy as I was not on my computer so sorry as I should have just started a new thread.

I would like to show everybody what this particular forum was intended for which is the very first thread at the top of this forum:


Dear Do-it-Yourselfer,

Thanks for visiting this professional Landscape Lighting Forum. Before you post a message, please understand that this forum is meant primarily for professional lighting installers, designers and specifiers. These professionals are dedicated to bettering themselves in their businesses and bettering the Professional Landscape Lighting Industry as a whole.

There is a world of difference between the products and methods available through your local hardware store and those used by professionals. In addition, lighting design is a fine art akin to fine art painting. Most of the professionals in this forum have undergone extensive training and honed their craft with years of experience.

While we understand and respect your well-intentioned wish to get pointers and guidance from these professionals, don't be surprised if the responses fall short of your expectations. Most of the forum members would much rather you employ their skills and talent to light your home rather than spend their valuable time to explain how you can do it yourself with the limited products and resources at your disposal.

Again, we do respect your desire to do it yourself and simply ask that you respect our desire to further the art of Landscape Lighting as done by the community of Lighting Professionals.
[Reply]

Since professionals, contractors and designers are here sharing we already know how to calculate loads , save our clients energy and conduct our businesses with professionalism.

My comments have been directed to everyone and only to remind all of how important design, artistic and creativity are. Lately we all have been directing are attention to teaching non professionals and discussing about what's not important.
Anyways take care all and hopefully things will turn around for the best and not just LOOK AT ME!!
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  #13  
Old 09-24-2012, 05:23 PM
steveparrott steveparrott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emby View Post
Since professionals, contractors and designers are here sharing we already know how to calculate loads , save our clients energy and conduct our businesses with professionalism.
I (as always) respect your opinion, but I think you're making a big assumption here. How many of our pros understand the LED's they're installing? How do you calculate power consumption on an LED system? What is power factor? How do you calculate voltage loss? What are the differences in voltage loss between daisy chains, T-methods, combination methods? What are likely failure scenarios for LEDs? What are the concerns with EMI, how are they addressed? I challenge anyone to find sources with these answers? I think this forum is a great place to discuss these and other lighting technology issues.

As for conducting business with professionalism, many do and others are still learning. The forum is a great place for pros to share how they run their businesses - sharing tips on marketing and sales techniques. (At least as much as they can share publicly.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by emby View Post
My comments have been directed to everyone and only to remind all of how important design, artistic and creativity are. Lately we all have been directing are attention to teaching non professionals and discussing about what's not important.
Anyways take care all and hopefully things will turn around for the best and not just LOOK AT ME!!
I 100% agree that design is a great topic for discussion. Let's do it more! I think part of the challenge with discussing design in a forum is that it's hard for most pros to talk about design principals and concepts - easier to show photos of their projects as examples of their design skills in action. We do see a lot of posts like that.

Regarding objections to promotional posts - I understand that and admit that I sometimes (out of enthusiasm for my company) put in promotional posts. It's hard not to, but I will be more conscious of that in the future.

Thanks Phil, I do respect your opinions and your desire to make this forum a better place for pros. Let's all work together to make that happen!

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  #14  
Old 09-25-2012, 03:35 AM
S&MLL S&MLL is offline
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Steve you have always contributed to this forum. It takes alot of time to sift through this forum when most posts are pretty much useless. I respect the fact that you care about lighting so much (Castlighting & And not the industry). But when posts get deleted on a daily basis it just makes me not want to even look here. Yes its been going on for years but the past few months the lighting forum has becomes so sponserfied its now become useless. (btw if this post gets deleted I will also leave lawnsite for good) Its nothing directly against you or Cast or any specific manufacturer its just been a major shift in the industry and a lot of guys are pretty mad about it. And its pretty clear Cast's name has been thrown in that conversation numerous times. You can say selling at 20percent off your website does not effect us. You can say sales have been minimal. You can say the only people who have complained have been 15 people on lawnsite. But what it comes down to imho is you guys have just let us all down. You didn't need to do that. You wanted to drum up sales and you decided to. By doing that a lot of us feel you are just ruining this industry. (I also don't agree with the whole times change us lighting guys have to change too)


Since I joined a few years ago I have seen some of the best in the industry leave this forum. I use to find it great logging on and seeing posts from major players in this lighting game. Well they are gone. And over that time paid sponsors contributing on this forum has gone up. What does that tell you. Why cant you guys just pay to sponsor. Your banner will be up top and all is well. There is a cast lighting forum on here as well. Steve I would find it great if you posted under here not as a sponsor and just as yourself.

This forum has just become a breeding ground for diy time wasters. As much as I have loved reading over the years and contributing on here I find little reason to do anything but look at posts prior to 2011.


Btw steve what does emi have anything to do with voltage drop on a loop method vs daisy chain. We are all aware CASTS AWARD WINNING LED PRODUCTS DONT PRODUCE EMI IN THE RANGE OF GARAGE DOOR OPENERS (sales pitch for yah bud)
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  #15  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:00 AM
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emby emby is offline
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I (as always) respect your opinion, but I think you're making a big assumption here. How many of our pros understand the LED's they're installing? How do you calculate power consumption on an LED system? What is power factor? How do you calculate voltage loss? What are the differences in voltage loss between daisy chains, T-methods, combination methods? What are likely failure scenarios for LEDs? What are the concerns with EMI, how are they addressed?

Really Steve? I'm sure you just insulted a few people's intelligence with that. I am not trying to be disrespectful but your not the only one in the world that knows all of that. Anyone can learn just as you have. The audience in this forum may be a bit different than what you have perceived.


I challenge anyone to find sources with these answers? I think this forum is a great place to discuss these and other lighting technology issues.

As an electrician I can certainly tell you that there are plenty of other resources on the internet that discuss these very questions you have stated. From interior applications to commercial this is nothing new. The architectural and landscape lighting forum on lawnsite is not the only place.



Regarding objections to promotional posts - I understand that and admit that I sometimes (out of enthusiasm for my company) put in promotional posts. It's hard not to, but I will be more conscious of that in the future.

I agree and CAST (you) have your own blog right here on lawnsite to post all of these wonderful discussions. Why here. LOOK AT ME.....what a shame.
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  #16  
Old 09-25-2012, 08:11 AM
indylights indylights is offline
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Everybody talks about the good old days on here. Do you guys remember when every thread, and I mean every thread, had multiple posts from Joey at Unique, not just talking about the topic, but had links to or descriptions of the Unique product he thought was the greatest in the world for that application. They had a Unique forum too, but he interjected into every post and constantly started new threads touting a new product or release. There was also a certain contractor who was the biggest Nightscaping spokesman, whether it was paid or unpaid, I have ever seen on this board or any other. Again, that was interjected into almost every thread. So it's not like this just started. Illumicare and Brilliance post as much promotional stuff on here as well. I'm not saying I like it, but don't act like it just started, because it's been going on a long time.
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:41 AM
steveparrott steveparrott is offline
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Ok, everyone. I accept your criticism. Here's what I'll do.

From now on, I will not post any promotional items about my company in this forum.

And, I will try not to be such a "know-it-all". A personal flaw, I admit.

I will continue to follow the threads and post my thoughts from time to time.

As for the direction of the forum, let's keep in mind that this is a public forum and has a life of its own. I've been with the forum for over 7 years and have seen it go through good times and bad.

Maybe someone would like to start a new thread (this one's gone way off-topic) on the subject on "The direction of the forum".
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2012, 03:49 PM
S&MLL S&MLL is offline
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Steve a Direct copy and past from your blog June 23rd 2010


Mistakes Some Homeowners Make:
They hire professionals who make the above mistakes.
They fail to recognize how a professionally designed lighting system beautifies their property, makes it safer, more secure, and enables them to enjoy their nighttime activities.
They underestimate the skill, experience, and artistry required to produce an exceptional lighting design. They spend way too much time in Home Depot browsing through the outdoor lighting section.
When evaluating bids for landscape lighting, they focus too much on price, and not enough on other values like training, experience, product quality and professionalism.
They are offended when the landscape lighting professional refuses to budge on price.
After they get bids on projects, they rush to the Internet to look for product prices to see if they are getting ripped off. They don’t know that the best lighting brands (like CAST Lighting) can’t be purchased through the Internet.
They try to do it themselves.




Funny how in 2 years you are saying Cast lighting is not a "best" lighting brand. (because you said 2 years earlier the best lighting brands cant be purchased via internet.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2012, 05:25 PM
steveparrott steveparrott is offline
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Please let it rest - I've explained many times how we've adjusted our policies to align with the Internet revolution. And, how we've done so in ways that ensure contractors and distributors can still make a good profit using our products.

If you still don't understand, then give me a call and I can explain further.

Thanks.
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