Employees/NonCompete/Routes

[C Jovingo Landscaping]

Originally Posted by jsslawncare

Sounds like me and my son, but he's 15. I let him cut a few yards by his self and keep the money from them.

Hope it works out better then my son! He is irresponsible for 20yrs old. I work fulltime job & lawn maintenance on weekends. I don't need help for my 18 lawns but had dreams of training him to do the mowing so I could have my weekends back & grow the business by advertising to get clients at the same time, so I could eventually go fulltime after built the client base up. He was tellin his friends that we were partners & was even tellin 1 of them that he would hire them. Had to put the breaks on & put him in his place. Told him he was not a partner & he did not need help for 18 lawns. Long story short he is in a party phase & don't like gettin up early & has "NO PRIDE" in his work. My lawns woulda looked like $h!t if I turned him loose on his own.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ralph02813]

Originally Posted by C Jovingo Landscaping

Why complaints? Did they think you did them to quick for the money they are payin?
Posted via Mobile Device

No, the work that the other person was doing was not up to my standards.

[devlin]

Originally Posted by bohiaa

You cant. on top of that I'm surprised you could get an employee to sign a non-competive statement.

If you look into it, what people need is MONEY. there is an old saying. dont let your employees steal more than 3%. if they do, you will be out of business.

Knowing this, I give profett shareing.
I over pay weekly, last week I purchased a new tire for one of my employees, and I purchase lunch for everyone at lease once a week.

NOW with this being said, I just fired a guy, who is REALLY CRYING ABOUT 40.00
if feels we own him 40.00 and he forgot about the well pump he broke. he forgot about the lunches, the money borrowed and he never repaid.

if you let people beat you down, then your attitude will change.
Dont let this happen. STILL be a GREAT person, and if someone steals from you. ask them if you can take them to lunch, then ask them if they need some money....

I wouldnt do that at all. Provide incentives... dont give them anything they didnt earn, just show them how to earn it.

[Penncare]

Let me envision the future after you have them sign the non-compete agreement. He learns the "trade secrets" of your business and starts seeing your customers on the side chipping away at the accounts you have. Lets say he takes 10% of the clients and leaves. You are mad, he is happy but stupid because now he has to provide what you provided and he can't use your equipment so he struggles. You can take two approaches.
1. Hire a lawyer and sue him and you get the free stress of court, letters, motion hearings, etc., etc. I figure you will spend over $10,000.00 minimum for the good fight with two possible outcomes. A. Best ending: You win and he is ordered to stop working in your area and ordered to pay you lost income from the accounts. My guess is that his response will be to ignore the judgement so now you have a lovely piece of paper that unlike most are does not increase in value and you have an ulcer and a bad attitude with everyone because you feel wronged. B. Bad ending and most likely: You lose and you still spent the money, lost time from work, have too much stress and now you hate lawyers, the justice system and yourself. The guy who signed the agreement may even hire a lawyer who will be truthful with his client and he advises that he just ride it out and let you spend tons on your attorney while he saves the money and buys equipment. The court finds that he may not personally compete with you and you have still spent tons and he pays almost nothing but his smarter lawyer advises him to have his wife open a lawn care business and work for her and she gives bids to all your customers 10% below you and starts to really eat into your business. Now what, start over and pay another semester of your lawyer's daughter's tuition in college? I say save yourself the grief of even proposing that someone sign such a document and giving yourself the opportunity in the future to cause yourself so much pain. Sorry to rant, but I have seen things like this really stress people out. Put your focus on doing the best job you can and quit worrying about what others are doing or may do. Not trying to be harsh, just saying life is too short.

[ralph02813]

Originally Posted by Penncare

Let me envision the future after you have them sign the non-compete agreement. He learns the "trade secrets" of your business and starts seeing your customers on the side chipping away at the accounts you have. Lets say he takes 10% of the clients and leaves. You are mad, he is happy but stupid because now he has to provide what you provided and he can't use your equipment so he struggles. You can take two approaches.
1. Hire a lawyer and sue him and you get the free stress of court, letters, motion hearings, etc., etc. I figure you will spend over $10,000.00 minimum for the good fight with two possible outcomes. A. Best ending: You win and he is ordered to stop working in your area and ordered to pay you lost income from the accounts. My guess is that his response will be to ignore the judgement so now you have a lovely piece of paper that unlike most are does not increase in value and you have an ulcer and a bad attitude with everyone because you feel wronged. B. Bad ending and most likely: You lose and you still spent the money, lost time from work, have too much stress and now you hate lawyers, the justice system and yourself. The guy who signed the agreement may even hire a lawyer who will be truthful with his client and he advises that he just ride it out and let you spend tons on your attorney while he saves the money and buys equipment. The court finds that he may not personally compete with you and you have still spent tons and he pays almost nothing but his smarter lawyer advises him to have his wife open a lawn care business and work for her and she gives bids to all your customers 10% below you and starts to really eat into your business. Now what, start over and pay another semester of your lawyer's daughter's tuition in college? I say save yourself the grief of even proposing that someone sign such a document and giving yourself the opportunity in the future to cause yourself so much pain. Sorry to rant, but I have seen things like this really stress people out. Put your focus on doing the best job you can and quit worrying about what others are doing or may do. Not trying to be harsh, just saying life is too short.

The only thing I would add is that life is "way" too short1

[getdown]

Penncare: thank you for the response. That was a very astute/spot on response. I used to work for an attorney and the situation you drew out, while I didn't have the same foresight (hence my posting for help), I am almost 100% positive that a scenario would play our exactly as you predicted. You are a wise person. Thanks!
Posted via Mobile Device

[GreyFlames]

Originally Posted by getdown

I have a question about employees when you are starting out. I know that you have them sign a non-compete, but what else can you do to prevent them from taking your business. A non-compete sort of creates a course of action after the deed is already done, at least from a legal stand. It doesn't do too much to prevent the deed in the first place.

If you had an established route of say 50 accounts that you serviced solo, but were looking to expand...how would you go about it. I figure you could give your new employee 25 of the accounts to service weekly which cuts your labor in half so you can spend more time selling your services and picking up new accounts.

The problem is, while you are being ambitious, you are literally trusting an employee with half your hard earned accounts. How would you more experience business owners handle this scenario?

Thanks in advance!

In most jurisdictions you need to do two things to make it enforceable at all.

1) define a limited area and be specific about the types of services. do be too broad. 2) have a reasonable amount of time set on this. 6-12 months. 3) give him a signing bonus for signing the non compete.

You should also think about a non-solicitation agreement. These typically don't have a time frame and prevents an employee from trying to sell to your customers... both past and present.

[C Jovingo Landscaping]

Originally Posted by GreyFlames

In most jurisdictions you need to do two things to make it enforceable at all.

1) define a limited area and be specific about the types of services. do be too broad. 2) have a reasonable amount of time set on this. 6-12 months. 3) give him a signing bonus for signing the non compete.

You should also think about a non-solicitation agreement. These typically don't have a time frame and prevents an employee from trying to sell to your customers... both past and present.

The time frame you mention, is that after employment ends? The OP doesn't want current employee doing side work & taking work from his customers. Time frame would allow employee to take work after time period if he is still employed by the OP. I have a aunt that runs a maid service & has her employees sign non compete, includes time of employment & 12 months after employment ends.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Scagguy]

Originally Posted by Duekster

In my state a non-complete will not hold water. I can however get a no raid enforcement.

You may want to look into getting a different attorney. I have been down this road once before. Long story short, the offender is making monthly payments to me for the next 5 years, gave up the accounts he stole, paid my attorneys fees and court cost, and is working in an area of we aren't in and will never be in. You just have to hire one bad ass lawyer to begin with and not be afraid to not only put up major dollars but know that it's at risk too. If I hadn't done that and made an example of out him, what's to keep the next person from screwing me over? If you're gonna be a bear, then be the biggest baddest sum b!tch out there when it comes to this stuff.