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  #11  
Old 11-27-2005, 08:50 PM
nocutting nocutting is offline
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Thumbs up "Are You A Bizness or A Mouse?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden's Gardener
I agree with no cutting - what a better place to be organic than in a place where folks' immune systems may already be compromised. As for applying every 5-6 weeks - geez - that sounds excessive. I only apply fertilizer 3 times a year. Early, early spring, like when the weather first breaks to catch the new growth and suppress weed seeds that may be waking up, I use Corn Gluten Meal, first. Then, depending on budgets and honestly, soil health, I may come back in 6 weeks to apply a balanced fertilizer. By the same token though, if it is a fairly weed free turf, no CGM and I jump to the balanced fertilizer. (in Dallas, there must be a dozen to choose from. For large areas, you may look at one with a urea mix just to go further with it per #) My book is out in the truck, but I think it is Medina that makes a good one. Don't know if they distribute your way or not, but I think you get like 5000 sq. ft per bag. And yes, I charge extra for pre-emergent (CGM) applications. Some properties don't require it and others do, so it isn't automatically part of my program.

Next application would be in early summer - June down here. And the same rule applies, weedy area - Corn Gluten Meal followed by fertilizer. Otherwise, just fertilizer. And actually, you could actually skip the fertilizer if you use the CGM unless the soil is really poor.

In the fall, down here mid Sept., I apply CGM when the night temps start to drop and moisture returns. This is when those pesky weed seeds will start up so this usually gets it done. Then, I always will come back with a round of fertilizer and/or compost in 6 weeks. Usually when I come back to over-seed. Unless they have a short in their budget - then they get whichever is needed most. (I have a few cheap clients, can you tell? )

Sell organics to the hospital - I sure would try for the principal of it if nothing else. Less to no insecticides - and they would be all natural if you did need anything, low odor and the odor is not chemical so it won't be dangerous to breathe in. I say go for it. Everyone thinks organics costs more - it really doesn't have to. I'm learning to charge a little extra for the wisdom, but no more for the service really. Goes through the spreader the same. And check on the nitro mix. It isn't the same as in chems. A 40 lb bag of non-urea mixed fertilizer should go about 2000 sq. ft. Good luck! And thanks for going organic! I think it is better for everyone applying it, too.
Sure every 5 or six weeks sounds excessive from an organic guys education.....but if he wants to survive in todays market , he needs his program to compete with the majority?......Whos that?.....We all know who they are.......and whats avalible for them to use.........Dont they have fertilizers that last 3-4 months?...Yes, but why do they choose not to use them....its economics, If you can suvive on only 3 treatments a Season, "God Bless You".....but most of us need every visit we have to keep a cash flow.....if you have a secret please share it with some of us ole dogs so we dont need to keep breakin our arse's...............:blush:
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2005, 09:05 PM
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Eden's Gardener Eden's Gardener is offline
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Location: Dallas, TX now Revised to Zone 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocutting
Dont they have fertilizers that last 3-4 months?...Yes, but why do they choose not to use them....its economics, If you can suvive on only 3 treatments a Season, "God Bless You".....but most of us need every visit we have to keep a cash flow.....if you have a secret please share it with some of us ole dogs so we dont need to keep breakin our arse's...............:blush:

I guess the answer would be to have more clients, fertilize fewer times per client and you should come out the same - with more clients, the potential for more extras exists too. No, not a mouse, just can't see wasting my time or the customer's money, or the product. And, you can charge a little more per trip for the wisdom, and the fact that you're saving them from a monthly or every 6 week trip. I don't know, ya'll are the veterans, but that is my train of thought. Mouse, very funny. I did LOL at that one.
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2006, 05:41 PM
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cenlo cenlo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden's Gardener
I guess the answer would be to have more clients, fertilize fewer times per client and you should come out the same - with more clients, the potential for more extras exists too. No, not a mouse, just can't see wasting my time or the customer's money, or the product. And, you can charge a little more per trip for the wisdom, and the fact that you're saving them from a monthly or every 6 week trip. I don't know, ya'll are the veterans, but that is my train of thought. Mouse, very funny. I did LOL at that one.
What I don't understand is everyone keeps talking about price comparisons between synthetic and organic ferts.....who cares! The "cost" problem will be your labour costs involved in the chemical free weed and insect control!
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  #14  
Old 01-15-2006, 10:09 PM
nocutting nocutting is offline
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"Not any different from the chemical Guys"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cenlo
What I don't understand is everyone keeps talking about price comparisons between synthetic and organic ferts.....who cares! The "cost" problem will be your labour costs involved in the chemical free weed and insect control!
Whats the fastest, easiest way to reduce weeds and insect threats?........Seeding........does it cost more for an Organic Guy to Seed?, I dont think so, we can use all the same equipment [ not restricted to usein horse drawn equipment in my area?].......By selecting the proper seed, you reduce the amount of space weeds have to grow..........By chooseing, endophytic seed, you are reduceing insects, ..........by selecting improved varities you are reducein disease and increasing drought tolerance............:blob1:
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2006, 10:40 PM
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TurfProSTL TurfProSTL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocutting
Whats the fastest, easiest way to reduce weeds and insect threats?........Seeding........

Even a tree hugger would have to admit that chemicals are quicker and easier to control these pests, if he were being honest.

The long term approach IS of course a thick, healthy stand of grass.....
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  #16  
Old 01-16-2006, 10:20 AM
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cenlo cenlo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocutting
Whats the fastest, easiest way to reduce weeds and insect threats?........Seeding........does it cost more for an Organic Guy to Seed?, I dont think so, we can use all the same equipment [ not restricted to usein horse drawn equipment in my area?].......By selecting the proper seed, you reduce the amount of space weeds have to grow..........By chooseing, endophytic seed, you are reduceing insects, ..........by selecting improved varities you are reducein disease and increasing drought tolerance............:blob1:
How do you expect to get rid of your existing weeds?
Do you think the homeowner will water your seeds properly?
How long will it take to achieve enough endophytic rye grass in order to repell the insects and the turf disease?

I agree with endophytic seeding being the "answere" but I would bet that no more than 10% of your property owners will be willing to water properly in order to achieve proper germination. That leaves 90% of your clients pissed off! And don't forget when you overseed (which should be done 2-3 times per year) you can't use corn gluten to kill off the new weed seeds which will keep blowing into your properties because the corn will kill your grass seeds too! What I am trying to say is get the clients, teach them sound cultural practices, reduce chemical usage, add organics, and within a few years with some good "client education" you should be able to "almost" completly eliminate all chemicals.
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  #17  
Old 01-16-2006, 10:44 AM
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DUSTYCEDAR DUSTYCEDAR is offline
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cenlo
what is the organic fert u like best?
how much r u using per 1000 per season?
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  #18  
Old 01-16-2006, 01:11 PM
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cenlo cenlo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUSTYCEDAR
cenlo
what is the organic fert u like best?
how much r u using per 1000 per season?
I use 18-3-6, 85% slow release with iron. We also use 8-2-4 corn gluten. Rates are around 5#'s per 1000.
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2006, 01:51 PM
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DUSTYCEDAR DUSTYCEDAR is offline
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18-3-6 who makes it? thanks
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2006, 01:01 AM
nocutting nocutting is offline
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Thumbs up "Over-seeding..............."

Quote:
Originally Posted by cenlo
How do you expect to get rid of your existing weeds?
Do you think the homeowner will water your seeds properly?
How long will it take to achieve enough endophytic rye grass in order to repell the insects and the turf disease?

I agree with endophytic seeding being the "answere" but I would bet that no more than 10% of your property owners will be willing to water properly in order to achieve proper germination. That leaves 90% of your clients pissed off! And don't forget when you overseed (which should be done 2-3 times per year) you can't use corn gluten to kill off the new weed seeds which will keep blowing into your properties because the corn will kill your grass seeds too! What I am trying to say is get the clients, teach them sound cultural practices, reduce chemical usage, add organics, and within a few years with some good "client education" you should be able to "almost" completly eliminate all chemicals.
"Over-seeding is a waste of My Time and My clients Money".........Slit seeding has a 98% seed to soil contact [ better than any kind of aeration to Boot!!!]..........Non-irragated properties, .........endophyte enhanced rye is only used in the late spring [ can be used inbetween corn gluten apps if nessasary for spot seeding as well]......Fall would be the time, actually late sept. in my area to use a 3-type dwarf type tall fescue [ also endophyte enhanced], if you dont get enough top growth then, you'll get a "Great Respoce in the spring", useing rainfall.
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