The Green Industry's Resource Center

DJ Contracting · #41 05-12-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssupercoolss

djcontracting " i agree with the agitation however if i'm not mistaken how will the material be agitated once you switch from agitation to spraying? I know on the hand agitated systems you agitate once you get on the job then you spray correct."

ummm....all nine of my sealcoating trucks have hydraulic aggitators, with speed control and forward/reverse. i have never had the pleasure of turning one by hand, nor do i ever want to. i dont think you can mix 5lbs of sand in a hand aggitated tank properly.

I have a 2" ballvalve that i set halfway on spray and half on recirculation, or i can agitate it for ten min. when i get to the job then switch to spray, that would be the same as a hand agitated system.

grassman21 · #42 05-12-2008, 10:31 PM

does tank size play any more part into the equation that just amount of sealer it can hold? maybe a dumb question but i have a 65 gallon tank i would like to use, sure it cant hold a lot but most of my buisness will be 2x2 residential drives... also does anyone(smaller business's) just buy sealer by 5 gallon buckets, i think that pricing will be nearly the same once shipping is figured into a 55 gallon drum....any brands sold at lowes or menards(5 gallon buckets) that anyone would suggest, or warn against? and would i need to dilute these sealers or would they be ready to apply?

ssupercoolss · #43 05-13-2008, 06:27 AM

please dont B.S. yourself into thinking recirculation is the same thing as aggitation. its not. try showing up at a job with an inspector, and trying to pass that one off.

SurfaceMax · #44 05-13-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grassman21

does tank size play any more part into the equation that just amount of sealer it can hold? maybe a dumb question but i have a 65 gallon tank i would like to use, sure it cant hold a lot but most of my buisness will be 2x2 residential drives... also does anyone(smaller business's) just buy sealer by 5 gallon buckets, i think that pricing will be nearly the same once shipping is figured into a 55 gallon drum....any brands sold at lowes or menards(5 gallon buckets) that anyone would suggest, or warn against? and would i need to dilute these sealers or would they be ready to apply?

A 65 gallon tank won't do much. If you are really close to a supplier it might be OK but remember the price of gas! A 65 gal tank would do about 2,000sq. ft. of finished pavement (give or take a few) and that's not much, maybe 2-4 small driveways. So that would be the biggest problem with size. You usually can't buy commercial grade sealer in 5 gallon pails (that's the home-store stuff)
So yes, a 65 could work but the cost of installing agitation (hand crank or hydraulic) will be the same as if it was a 200-300 gallon (only a little difference in the amount of metal) so that's in start-up overhead then if you get any degree off success at all you will be spending a lot of time & gas running back & forth to the sealer plant. So if there is a plant within 15 miles or maybe 20-30 max you would be OK but if it's 2 hours to get sealer you will be spending your profits "on the road".
The only benefit I see is that many contractors won't use primer when it's really needed because of the cost of mixing in their tank then having to go get sealer etc. BUT a 65 would hold enough primer to cover a pretty large area (primer goes down very thin-like water). So if you outgrow the 65 for sealing you could buy a bigger seal rig and have a tank a decent size for priming & doing a really good quality job on smaller areas where other guys might skip the primer.

SurfaceMax · #45 05-13-2008, 02:26 PM

Editing time ran out and I didn't catch that you would be using a non agitated/square tank. So it won't work for sealing period.
Think about your question about the home store stuff a minute. When people see those pails they will know what you are using and that you definitely not a professional. (And some may be hacked because people are funny. If they see you used the same stuff they could buy at Lowes and you made $50 profit they may think that $50 was too much and you ripped them off because you put down the same thing they could have bought even if your time was well-worth the $50)
It would still work for priming. Primer has no sand and is thin like water.

grassman21 · #46 05-13-2008, 10:28 PM

i was referring to using a 65 gallon round tank with a transfer type pump similar to the low end seal rigs seen in the square tanks, the reason i wondered about the 5 gallon pails was that i up until now have been buying them from lowes and applying them by squegee(backbreaking)

ssupercoolss · #47 05-27-2008, 03:49 PM

DJ - I've done a ton of airport work. and i dont mean i just stopped by to cut thier grass. the FAA is sometimes kind of hung up on specs like "full sweep aggitation". I've probably put more sealer down in one day than you have in a year. and yes, i do know what i am talking about when i debate aggitation vs recirculation. I've had to recirculate a tanker with 4000 gallons in it. it takes hours to mix it into something resembling mixed coal tar. and thats taking the hose and dumping it back into the furthest spot away from where it is sucking it out of the tank. i would have to bet your recirc line dumps back right on top of where it sucks it out, doesnt it.

MisterRatburn · #48 05-27-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssupercoolss

DJ - I've done a ton of airport work. and i dont mean i just stopped by to cut thier grass. the FAA is sometimes kind of hung up on specs like "full sweep aggitation". I've probably put more sealer down in one day than you have in a year. and yes, i do know what i am talking about when i debate aggitation vs recirculation. I've had to recirculate a tanker with 4000 gallons in it. it takes hours to mix it into something resembling mixed coal tar. and thats taking the hose and dumping it back into the furthest spot away from where it is sucking it out of the tank. i would have to bet your recirc line dumps back right on top of where it sucks it out, doesnt it.

Who cares how much **** you've sprayed in a day? You guys with the expensive equipment are really worried about the little guy. If you didn't show so much fear.. then I would really think that only the best equipment is the way to go. But since you guys are so insecure about the guy with the Square box and broom... I have to assume that they must have just as much work too! So who's better? Who's ahead of the game? Me thinks that the guy with less invested might be more ahead! The home-owner doesn't know **** about Sealing....so don't pretend they do! They just know who does it cheaper!! haha!!

seal4cash · #49 05-27-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Who cares how much **** you've sprayed in a day? You guys with the expensive equipment are really worried about the little guy. If you didn't show so much fear.. then I would really think that only the best equipment is the way to go. But since you guys are so insecure about the guy with the Square box and broom... I have to assume that they must have just as much work too! So who's better? Who's ahead of the game? Me thinks that the guy with less invested might be more ahead! The home-owner doesn't know **** about Sealing....so don't pretend they do! They just know who does it cheaper!! haha!!

Speaking from my personal experience, people are very cheap these days....they do not care about expensive systems with agitation and high-end material.....thats why wal-marts and dollar stores are so popular.....as long as their driveway is black everyone's happy around here.
I run one of those "cheap" rigs and spray gilsonite (no sand required)...when i'm done, the driveway looks nice black and shiny and everyone's happy.....i don't see anyone in my area using the expensive rigs and there is probably a good reason for it......
Bottom line is.... i spend less $$ on my overhead, than the guy with 1st class expensive sealing rig....and reading about some of the prices they charge....i charge roughly about the same....
So in the end.....since the whole idea of running a buisness, is too spend as little as possible and charge as much as possible.... i think i have the edge over the "big guy"....
Of course they don't like it, it probably makes some of them them feel stupid, when they're stuck paying off their expensive rig making same $$$ as the little guy.....
Is it fair?....of course not...in theory the more you invest into your buisness the more you should get back....while this rule might apply to other buisnesses, sealing driveways isn't one of them....

The reason for this?......driveway sealing, right next to roofing, is probably the # 1 outlet for con-artists in all of North America...what i mean by that.....the sealing buisness for some reason attracts more con-artists, than any other buisnesses (you're welcome to run a google search on # 1 home-improvement scam in North America, see what comes out...)
My point is, that some of the guys who are legit, might be well meaning, but all they are doing is pi**ing against the wind, when they create these fancy sounding paving organizations, which are clearly aimed to restore the public confidence....it will NEVER happen....period.
This is the nature of the beast.
Perception is reality....and the perception is, that if you hold a spraying wand in your hand, there is about 95% chance, that you are a con-artist....
It is what it is....might as well just go with it....there's no point in any kind of infighting about equipment....
Bottom line....the best equipment is the one that makes you most $$...

ssupercoolss · #50 05-28-2008, 06:09 AM

you are so right. homeowners know who does it cheaper. unfortunatly they dont know who is doing it right. thats what seperates the guys doing commercial work from those doing residential. we continue to work for many of the same companies after the first job.