# The Green Industry's Resource Center

#31
01-23-2010, 11:42 AM
 PTSolutions LawnSite Silver Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OH Posts: 2,281
yea your right, i forgot you still need B cert.
#32
01-23-2010, 03:27 PM
 Duffster LawnSite Bronze Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,189
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ProTouch Groundscapes i just downloaded the CDL handbook b/c my brother and I will be getting our class A with air brake endorsements because of our new trailer purchase. our truck F350 with 11,500 gvwr our trailer= 19,000 gvwr Total Combined Gross Vehicle weight rating= 30,500 The CGWVR is over 26,000lbs so we need a CDL if the trailer was 10,000 gvwr or under then we would not need a cdl If our truck was say 19,500 gvwr and our trailer was 8,000 gvwr CGvwR= 27,500 even though its over the 26K cgvwr, since the trailer is under the 10K limit you wont need a cdl
That is correct.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by GravelyNut Nope. It just means you can get away with a Class B CDL if the trailer is 10K or less. 10K+1 puts you in Class A territory. 26K+1 is CDL either way.
That is incorrect.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ProTouch Groundscapes yea your right, i forgot you still need B cert.
You where right the first time.
__________________

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
#33
01-23-2010, 03:28 PM
 Duffster LawnSite Bronze Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,189
Don't anyone let DVS see this thread.
__________________

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
#34
01-25-2010, 01:38 PM
 PTSolutions LawnSite Silver Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OH Posts: 2,281
yep duffster

if you have a combination (truck+trailer) and your over 26K combined and your trailer is over 10K gvw then it calls for a class A cdl

if your truck is 26,001K, without a trailer then you need the class b

heres the easiest way to decide that ive found:

#35
01-25-2010, 02:03 PM
 Duffster LawnSite Bronze Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,189
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ProTouch Groundscapes yep duffster if you have a combination (truck+trailer) and your over 26K combined and your trailer is over 10K gvw then it calls for a class A cdl if your truck is 26,001K, without a trailer then you need the class b heres the easiest way to decide that ive found:
Yes Sir that chart is very handy but still proves to be difficult for some.

Your statement about the 19,500 truck pulling a 8k not needing a CDL was correct. If the trailer is under 10k it doesn't even factor into the GCWR, as far as CDL is concerned.

That is why I said that GravelyNut was incorrect saying 26k+1 is CDL either way. It is possible to drive a rig with a 36k GCWR and still not need a CDL if the truck is 26k or under and the trailer is 10k or under.

__________________

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
#36
01-25-2010, 07:18 PM
 bobcatoh LawnSite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hamilton Ohio Posts: 24
Guys as much as I hate to jump into these cdl threads I feel like I can clear up the class A.

The graph clearly asks if the weight of the vehicle or combination is over 26,000lbs. If the answer is no then you do not need a cdl.

The gross weight of the truck and trailer are the only thing that matters. If they are over 26,001lbs, they can be empty and you will be cited.

The above example with the truck at 19,500 and trailer at 8,000 puts you over 26,000 lbs, thus you need a cdl.

If you are under cdl, the DOT will use the bridge formula so your trailer axles can legally carry 20,00 per axle on the rear and trailer axles and 12,000 on the steering axle.

So a 1/2 ton little Nissan truck with a two axle trailer can legally carry 62,000 lbs.

This info came from the head guy at the Ohio State Patrol that operates the States DOT.

I was as confused as the rest of you so I just picked up the phone and called them.

He also said that as long as the axle weights are fine that the only ones that care about how much weight you are carrying were the manufacturers, and the lawyers if you got into a wreck.

Here is one of my rigs. The gvcwr is 25,600Lbs.

One other thing you need to look at is the tires that are on your trailer.

More than likely to weight rating for the tires doesn't match the axle rating.
Attached Images

#37
01-25-2010, 07:55 PM
 Duffster LawnSite Bronze Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,189
Quote:
 Originally Posted by bobcatoh Guys as much as I hate to jump into these cdl threads I feel like I can clear up the class A. The graph clearly asks if the weight of the vehicle or combination is over 26,000lbs. If the answer is no then you do not need a cdl. The gross weight of the truck and trailer are the only thing that matters. If they are over 26,001lbs, they can be empty and you will be cited. The above example with the truck at 19,500 and trailer at 8,000 puts you over 26,000 lbs, thus you need a cdl. If you are under cdl, the DOT will use the bridge formula so your trailer axles can legally carry 20,00 per axle on the rear and trailer axles and 12,000 on the steering axle. So a 1/2 ton little Nissan truck with a two axle trailer can legally carry 62,000 lbs. This info came from the head guy at the Ohio State Patrol that operates the States DOT. I was as confused as the rest of you so I just picked up the phone and called them. He also said that as long as the axle weights are fine that the only ones that care about how much weight you are carrying were the manufacturers, and the lawyers if you got into a wreck. Here is one of my rigs. The gvcwr is 25,600Lbs. One other thing you need to look at is the tires that are on your trailer. More than likely to weight rating for the tires doesn't match the axle rating.
The bolded part is absolutely wrong, like I have said previously. If the trailer is 0k or under it doesn't even come into play.

Please explain how you think that combo needs a CDL.

The rest of your post I will leave for now.
__________________

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
#38
01-25-2010, 07:59 PM
 GravelyNut LawnSite Bronze Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wet part of FL Posts: 1,594
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Duffster Yes Sir that chart is very handy but still proves to be difficult for some. Your statement about the 19,500 truck pulling a 8k not needing a CDL was correct. If the trailer is under 10k it doesn't even factor into the GCWR, as far as CDL is concerned. That is why I said that GravelyNut was incorrect saying 26k+1 is CDL either way. It is possible to drive a rig with a 36k GCWR and still not need a CDL if the truck is 26k or under and the trailer is 10k or under.
I wouldn't go crossing any statelines with it or you'd find out how wrong you can be. And there are states that go by what the FMCSA say applies as to what is a CMV in state. NC is one of those states. CT is another. Florida says CMVs start at 10K+1. NY say:
Quote:
 (Under the NYS VTL, CMV weight classifications are based on the greater of the following weights: manufacturer's GVWR or GCWR, registration weight, or actual weight of the vehicle(s) and load.)
To operate a CMV you need to have a CDL Class C minimum or an exemption on the CDL ( like Ohio's K-2 exemption for in state use only). Feds lowered the bar saying even a pickup towing a trailer is a CMV if the GCWR or AGCW is 10K+1 crossing statelines if for profit. And is therefore subject to the FMCSRs. That is in the 49CFR390.5 interpretations. For profit can be something as simple as a winning trophy (CT) or taking the CMV to the next state to get it repaired (Fed). Ohio adopted the FMCSR in whole.

Quote:
 Safety Rules The PUCO has adopted the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR) under Ohio Administrative Code (OAC) 4901:. These safety rules will apply to commercial motor vehicles as defined in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR)49 Part 390.5. All motor carriers must maintain a driver qualification (DQ) file for each driver they use, which includes all items in CFR49 Part 391.51. All motor carriers must comply with hours of service regulations and maintain record of duty status, or, as the industry knows them, log books, for a period of 6 months, as required by CFR49 Part 395.8. If you operate locally then you can use the exception found in CFR49 Part 395.1(E). All motor carriers must maintain maintenance records as required in CFR49 Part 396.3. All drivers must complete a daily inspection of each vehicle operated listing any and all safety defects, and carriers must maintain these inspections as required by CFR49 Part 396.11 and effect repairs of safety items before the commercial motor vehicle may be dispatched again. All motor carriers are required to have all commercial motor vehicles inspected on an annual basis, and documentation that the commercial motor vehicle passed the inspection must be carried on board as required in CFR49 Part 396.17. Alcohol and Drug Testing is required by CFR49 Part 382 if the size and or weight of the commercial motor vehicle requires the driver to possess a commercial drivers license (CDL) as required in ORC 4506. Note: The definition of a commercial motor vehicle in CFR49 Part 383.5 is for that part only.
From 390.5:
Quote:
 Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle— (1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or (2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or (3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or (4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.
From the interpretation section.
Quote:
 Question 11: A company has a truck with a GVWR under 10,001 pounds towing a trailer with a GVWR under 10,001 pounds. However, the GVWR of the truck added to the GVWR of the trailer is greater than 10,001 pounds. Would the company operating this vehicle in interstate commerce have to comply with the FMCSRs? Guidance: §390.5 of the FMCSRs includes in the definition of CMV a vehicle with a GVWR or GCWR of 10,001 or more pounds. The section further defines GCWR as the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) vehicle. Therefore, if the GVWR of the truck added to the GVWR of the trailer exceeds 10,001 pounds, the driver and vehicle are subject to the FMCSRs.
So if you tow like Duffster says without a CDL, watch out as the states are watching to earn money any way they can. And having the CDL is one way of them not getting any more money than it and the Med cert, triangles and fire extingusher, log book cost.

And also lookout if you have a permanent water tank on a CDL A or B required vehicle as more than 119 gallons requires the driver to have a tanker endorsement.
#39
01-25-2010, 08:10 PM
 PTSolutions LawnSite Silver Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OH Posts: 2,281
looking up my states cdl requirements refers me to the federal regulations. So, if i abide by the federal level requirements and am safe here in ohio, If I cross into another state with higher requirements than federal, then im fair game?
#40
01-25-2010, 08:12 PM
 bobcatoh LawnSite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hamilton Ohio Posts: 24
Duffster,

Look at the (Do you need a cdl graph) above. The first item asks "Does the vehicle or combination manufactures gcwr over 26,000?" The example of 19,500 & 8,000 would be yes so you need a cdl.

The best thing to do if you are not sure is just call them, they won't bite.

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