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  #41  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:35 PM
360ci 360ci is offline
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CT has endorsements for everything! Wow.

Ontario specs:

I hold a class ACZ license, which 'A' means I'm rated for class 8 vehicles, in ANY combination from single trailer to pups to double trailers. 'C' means motor coach or any non-school bus with no passenger maximum, 'Z' is for air brake endorsement, and the only endorsement you can get. If you get your 'A' license in Ontario, you have to get your 'Z' as well, as all class 8 vehicles here have air brakes.

The 10K trailer rule applies here as well. If the total weight being towed is more than 10K a commercial license is required.

Ontario Licensing:
A - tractor trailer
B - school bus
C - motor coach
D - dump truck, trailer less than 10K
F - bus/shuttle under 20 passengers
G - general car license (the one everyone can get through a cereal box mail in order!)
M - motorcycle
X - if you wear glasses this will be on the license as a 'condition' not as a license grade
Z - air brake endorsement
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  #42  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:38 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
I wouldn't go crossing any statelines with it or you'd find out how wrong you can be. And there are states that go by what the FMCSA say applies as to what is a CMV in state. NC is one of those states. CT is another. Florida says CMVs start at 10K+1. NY say: To operate a CMV you need to have a CDL Class C minimum or an exemption on the CDL ( like Ohio's K-2 exemption for in state use only). Feds lowered the bar saying even a pickup towing a trailer is a CMV if the GCWR or AGCW is 10K+1 crossing statelines if for profit. And is therefore subject to the FMCSRs. That is in the 49CFR390.5 interpretations. For profit can be something as simple as a winning trophy (CT) or taking the CMV to the next state to get it repaired (Fed). Ohio adopted the FMCSR in whole.



From 390.5:

From the interpretation section. So if you tow like Duffster says without a CDL, watch out as the states are watching to earn money any way they can. And having the CDL is one way of them not getting any more money than it and the Med cert, triangles and fire extingusher, log book cost.

And also lookout if you have a permanent water tank on a CDL A or B required vehicle as more than 119 gallons requires the driver to have a tanker endorsement.
You are mixing up your definitions of CMV's, one has to do with CDL's and one has to do with the threshold that require the safety equipment and med card and such.
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  #43  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:38 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProTouch Groundscapes View Post
looking up my states cdl requirements refers me to the federal regulations. So, if i abide by the federal level requirements and am safe here in ohio, If I cross into another state with higher requirements than federal, then im fair game?
No, no other state can hold you to higher regs than the federal regs.
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #44  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:40 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Originally Posted by bobcatoh View Post
Duffster,

Look at the (Do you need a cdl graph) above. The first item asks "Does the vehicle or combination manufactures gcwr over 26,000?" The example of 19,500 & 8,000 would be yes so you need a cdl.

The best thing to do if you are not sure is just call them, they won't bite.
What does the next box say?
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #45  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:52 PM
360ci 360ci is offline
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Originally Posted by bobcatoh View Post
Duffster,

Look at the (Do you need a cdl graph) above. The first item asks "Does the vehicle or combination manufactures gcwr over 26,000?" The example of 19,500 & 8,000 would be yes so you need a cdl.

The best thing to do if you are not sure is just call them, they won't bite.
You can't read the graph right. It's GVWR over 26K, not combined. If the trailer and payload equate to more than 10K, a license upgrade will be required. If the trailer is 8K total weight, a CDL is not required unless the GVWR is over 26K, so with it being 19.5K, a CDL is not required.

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What does the next box say?
OBAMA?
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  #46  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:53 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360ci View Post
You can't read the graph right. It's GVWR over 26K, not combined. If the trailer and payload equate to more than 10K, a license upgrade will be required. If the trailer is 8K total weight, a CDL is not required unless the GVWR is over 26K, so with it being 19.5K, a CDL is not required.
Come bobcatoh, even a canadain can read our rules better then you can.

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OBAMA?
LOL
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2010, 09:11 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Ok boys here are the Federal Regs.

I know of no state other than CA that differs from these signifigantly.

§383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups. (a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

(a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

(a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

(a)(3) Small Vehicle (Group C)—Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).


Notice that class A is for combo's over 26k that include a trailer over 10k.

I don't think anyone here is confused about that.

Class B is for straight trucks over 26k (ORstraight trucks pulling trailers under10k. Notice it doesn't say anything about combos over 26k.

Class C is for trucks under 26k that require endorsements.

So like I said the original example of the combo of the 19.5k truck/8k trailer would need NO CDL at all.
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #48  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:15 PM
360ci 360ci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
Come bobcatoh, even a canadain can read our rules better then you can.

LOL
I know quite a bit, even more if I make reference. I had some state training in Michigan after I upgraded my license in Ontario!:

Happy happy joy joy

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  #49  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:09 AM
GravelyNut GravelyNut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
Ok boys here are the Federal Regs.

I know of no state other than CA that differs from these signifigantly.

§383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups. (a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

(a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

(a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

(a)(3) Small Vehicle (Group C)—Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).


Notice that class A is for combo's over 26k that include a trailer over 10k.

I don't think anyone here is confused about that.

Class B is for straight trucks over 26k (ORstraight trucks pulling trailers under10k. Notice it doesn't say anything about combos over 26k.

Class C is for trucks under 26k that require endorsements.

So like I said the original example of the combo of the 19.5k truck/8k trailer would need NO CDL at all.
I quoted you from the official NY site but to remind you again:
Quote:
1.2 - Commercial Driver License Classes, Endorsements & Restrictions
Commercial driver license classes, endorsements and restrictions are based on the type of CMV
driven. The type of CMV is determined by the vehicle manufacturer's GVWR (for single vehicles) or
GCWR (for combination vehicles), construction or use. (Under the NYS VTL, CMV weight
classifications are based on the greater of the following weights: manufacturer's GVWR or GCWR,
registration weight, or actual weight of the vehicle(s) and load.) CDL classes, endorsements and
restrictions, therefore, correspond to vehicle weight, construction or use, as shown in Figure 1.1 on
page 1-2.
Section 1 INTRODUCTION
New York State Commercial Driver’s Manual Page 1-1
Section 1 INTRODUCTION
Found at http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf Suggest you look at the chart below because it is copied from where the above stops. Class B allows towing and combinations as long as it doesn't exceed 26000. It meets what I said previously.
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  #50  
Old 01-26-2010, 05:40 AM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
I quoted you from the official NY site but to remind you again:
You forgot this section that explains when a CDL is needed.

Quote:
1.1 - Commercial Motor Vehicles (CMV)
You must have a Commercial Driver License (CDL) to operate any of the following CMVs:
Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating
(GCWR) is 26,001 pounds or more.
A vehicle designed to transport 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver) or a vehicle
defined as a bus under Article 19-A, Section 509-a of the NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law (VTL).
Any size vehicle that is used in the transportation of any material that requires hazardous
materials placards or any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR 73.
Federal regulations through the Department of Homeland Security require a background check
and fingerprinting for the Hazardous Materials endorsement.
Notice that combinations over 26k that include traiers under 10k are not included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Found at http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf Suggest you look at the chart below because it is copied from where the above stops. Class B allows towing and combinations as long as it doesn't exceed 26000. It meets what I said previously.
Actually it doesn't.

A class D allows the same thing and meets what I said previously.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes
Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.

Last edited by Duffster; 01-26-2010 at 05:46 AM.
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