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  #51  
Old 01-26-2010, 05:10 AM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Found at http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf Suggest you look at the chart below because it is copied from where the above stops. Class B allows towing and combinations as long as it doesn't exceed 26000. It meets what I said previously.
EDIT

I misread what you typed here.

The chart says that you can tow over 10k as long as the combo isn't over 26k(that would be a class A).

The 19.5k/8k example doesn't meet the definition of class B(the truck is not over 26k). This example is a class D like I previously said.

Keep in mind that a license class allows you to operate any lower class vehicle.
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  #52  
Old 01-26-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
A driver with a Class D license can operate a passenger vehicle, a limited use automobile, or:

A truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less.

and

A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle, and the other vehicle has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less,
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/ncdlc.htm

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes
Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.

Last edited by Duffster; 01-26-2010 at 09:19 AM. Reason: added quote tags
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  #53  
Old 01-26-2010, 11:12 AM
GravelyNut GravelyNut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
You forgot this section that explains when a CDL is needed.



Notice that combinations over 26k that include traiers under 10k are not included.



Actually it doesn't.

A class D allows the same thing and meets what I said previously.
Quote:
(Under the NYS VTL, CMV weight
classifications are based on the greater of the following weights: manufacturer's GVWR or GCWR,
registration weight, or actual weight of the vehicle(s) and load.)
What don't you understand about 1.2 telling you that the weight is the higher of the weights. And if the GCWR is higher than the GVWR, that is what applies. As his example is a combination of truck and trailer, with the trailer under 10 K, he still is Class B as their ruling is based on a combo. Class A just changes it to Class A from Class B if the trailer is over 10K and exceeds 26K total weight. 19K + 8K = 27K which is over the 26K+1 threshold but not over the 10K+1 trailer that would make it a Class A.

This also matches what a FLDOT examiner told me. And also what the Ohio Highway Patrol told bobcatoh.
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:31 PM
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Gravelynut, seriously, what didn't you understand about my previous post? It doesn't get anymore point blank than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
What don't you understand about 1.2 telling you that the weight is the higher of the weights.
I understand this perfectly. You're not reading it correctly. Trust me I am the farthest thing from an English major, so if I can read it you should be able too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
And if the GCWR is higher than the GVWR, that is what applies.
No, it doesn't.

Quote:
the NYS VTL, CMV weight
classifications are based on the greater of the following weights: manufacturer's GVWR or GCWR,
registration weight, or actual weight of the vehicle(s) and load.)
Notice the bold red "or". It means one or the other (notice there is not a comma after "GVWR") not the greater of the two.

For example if you are driving a CDL beater truck(25,999 GVWR) and it is registered for 27k or scales at 27k it would need a CDL to be driven.

Like wise if you were driving a F250(9200 GVWR) pulling a 16k(GVWR) trailer and it actually scaled at 27k it would need a CDL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
As his example is a combination of truck and trailer, with the trailer under 10 K, he still is Class B as their ruling is based on a combo. Class A just changes it to Class A from Class B if the trailer is over 10K and exceeds 26K total weight. 19K + 8K = 27K which is over the 26K+1 threshold but not over the 10K+1 trailer that would make it a Class A.
So again Class B is for straight trucks NOT combination vehicles.

Quote:
(a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)óAny single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR
Notice it specifically says GVWR there is no other option here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
This also matches what a FLDOT examiner told me. And also what the Ohio Highway Patrol told bobcatoh.
Honestly, IMO, what some DMV employees say is worthless, especially second hand. I prefer something that can be read (and taken to the courtroom for evidence). What guarantees the the DMV employee read or understood what they read. Or that they even care. Ask three DOT cops the same question you will get three different answers, only one can be right, hell ask the same cop a question twice you will probably get 2 different answers.

But really after my previous post I don't know what else to say other than to reiterate that ProTouch's example does NOT need a CDL.

It is possible to have a 36k rig and NOT need a CDL.
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #55  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:35 PM
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AI Inc AI Inc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutRight View Post
but you must at least acknowledge my point in the wording of the definition of a CDL Class A licence that is found on the Connecticut State websites

A = Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- holders of class A licenses may, with the appropriate endorsements and restrictions, operate all vehicles within classes B and C.
(took that from the CT website)


those are the exact words, copy and pasted.

Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds ....... meaning, any combination of any vehicles, ie. truck and trailer, with a gross combined weight rating (GVWR of the truck + GVWR of the trailer) that equals to or above 26,001 pounds.......

providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.

that the trailer is rated for over 10,000


my equipment to be moved

GMC 5500 GVWR 25,900 pounds
trailer GVWR 18,000 pounds

GVWR 43,900 pounds


get my point. thats why this argument is so confusing. by the definition on the CT website i shoul dneed a CDL Class A licence to tow that truck...but ill let you guys know what i find out from the DMV
Yes , if combined weight is over 26k , you need a CDL. Combined weight over 10k requires a medical card ( for this there may be an excemption if you are the owner , Im not sure , so dont quote me)
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  #56  
Old 01-26-2010, 02:13 PM
GravelyNut GravelyNut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
Gravelynut, seriously, what didn't you understand about my previous post? It doesn't get anymore point blank than that.



I understand this perfectly. You're not reading it correctly. Trust me I am the farthest thing from an English major, so if I can read it you should be able too.



No, it doesn't.



Notice the bold red "or". It means one or the other (notice there is not a comma after "GVWR") not the greater of the two.

For example if you are driving a CDL beater truck(25,999 GVWR) and it is registered for 27k or scales at 27k it would need a CDL to be driven.

Like wise if you were driving a F250(9200 GVWR) pulling a 16k(GVWR) trailer and it actually scaled at 27k it would need a CDL.



So again Class B is for straight trucks NOT combination vehicles.



Notice it specifically says GVWR there is no other option here.



Honestly, IMO, what some DMV employees say is worthless, especially second hand. I prefer something that can be read (and taken to the courtroom for evidence). What guarantees the the DMV employee read or understood what they read. Or that they even care. Ask three DOT cops the same question you will get three different answers, only one can be right, hell ask the same cop a question twice you will probably get 2 different answers.

But really after my previous post I don't know what else to say other than to reiterate that ProTouch's example does NOT need a CDL.

It is possible to have a 36k rig and NOT need a CDL.
I'd suggest you go back and read the NY definition again, they get to chose by whichever is greater. Is that so hard to understand? MFG's GVWR or GCWR is their choice to get to the highest weight. If they don't like those, they can nail you on registered weight, if higher. Or they can go after you for actual weight if they pull out the scales.

This Examiner was/is also a DOT cop. So if you were to run into her, here in Florida, she has the rules of the road. And the blue light to enforce them her way. And after I posted this I asked a Class A CDL driver this question in the blind. His answer was the same. 26K+1 = CDL and for the example 19 + 8, his reply was CDL Class B. And he got his license in NJ and can tow doubles and triples.
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  #57  
Old 01-26-2010, 05:58 PM
360ci 360ci is offline
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You guys would make a good couple.

The last police-woman I ran into in the Southern US, was in a desperate need of a facial shave!
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  #58  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:59 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
I'd suggest you go back and read the NY definition again, they get to chose by whichever is greater.
I have read it thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Is that so hard to understand?
It obviously is for you.

[QUOTE=GravelyNut;3382478]MFG's GVWR or GCWR is their choice to get to the highest weight. If they don't like those, they can nail you on registered weight, if higher. Or they can go after you for actual weight if they pull out the scales. [/qotue]

There is no choice between GVWR and GCWR, NONE!!!!!!

GCWR =Class A

GVWR =Class B

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Obviously my English lesson from my previous post went in one ear and out the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
This Examiner was/is also a DOT cop. So if you were to run into her, here in Florida, she has the rules of the road. And the blue light to enforce them her way.
It is her job to enforce the rules the way they are written. Not whatever she feels like that day.

Why are you hopscotching around between states? You are the one that said that the states CDL rules "are pretty much word for word the same as they come from the Feds".

So New York, Florida and Ohio just happen to be three state that don't follow the feds?

Your argument don't hold water.

PS How do you explain post #52? It blows your little theory all a part.
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #59  
Old 01-26-2010, 08:01 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360ci View Post
You guys would make a good couple.

The last police-woman I ran into in the Southern US, was in a desperate need of a facial shave!
She wasn't the kind you would want to get the gloves of treatment from Eh?
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Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes
Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #60  
Old 01-26-2010, 09:56 PM
360ci 360ci is offline
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I just crossed into Louisiana a few years ago, and two DOT guys pulled me over, in the same car. The driver approached the cab, and I had cruise set at 55mph in a 55mph zone, which was a flat area for quite a bit yet. This HUGE officer stated once I had rolled my window all the way down and shut the truck off "Well sur, whatsit gunna bee. Ah speedin' violation, or ah log book violation?". I chose a speeding violation just so it wouldn't go back against the company.

The satellite system on the truck even proved that I was doing the speed limit on that road after I was able to get the download. I was pissed, so I drove to the next rest area that had a fax machine, and sent a copy with my 'ticket' to the DOT also stating that I'll be back in time for the court date as I was going to fight the ticket. They phoned me back three hours later when I was stopped for lunch to tell me that the ticket's been thrown out, and a comfirmation letter will be couriered to my office stating so. Four days later it was at the office, two weeks before the court date!

For some officers, the do take advantage of the blue light. I'm sure in this case this guy was just showing off to his partner, because they were bored and the road had NO traffic on it, either than myself. It's just a waste of time, but it's also good to know that these guys are few and far between.
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