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  #61  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:30 AM
GravelyNut GravelyNut is offline
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[QUOTE=Duffster;3383319]I have read it thank you.



It obviously is for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
MFG's GVWR or GCWR is their choice to get to the highest weight. If they don't like those, they can nail you on registered weight, if higher. Or they can go after you for actual weight if they pull out the scales. [/qotue]

There is no choice between GVWR and GCWR, NONE!!!!!!

GCWR =Class A

GVWR =Class B

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Obviously my English lesson from my previous post went in one ear and out the other.



It is her job to enforce the rules the way they are written. Not whatever she feels like that day.

Why are you hopscotching around between states? You are the one that said that the states CDL rules "are pretty much word for word the same as they come from the Feds".

So New York, Florida and Ohio just happen to be three state that don't follow the feds?

Your argument don't hold water.

PS How do you explain post #52? It blows your little theory all a part.
You made the comment that California was the only state that differs significantly in Post #47.
Quote:
I know of no state other than CA that differs from these signifigantly.
I've been showing that you that the states can set higher rules under their laws than the Feds require. Also that when you get drivers from different states, they too have been told that Class B can and does apply to GCWR not just GVWR. Ohio and Florida are two states that I do currently drive in and NY is on the list of places I'll be traveling to. CT is a state that is off my list of places I'll be going with my current truck and trailer because of their rules.

Post #52 links to non-CDL Class D, which if you aren't doing it for commerce is correct. If you aren't transporting in commerce, the rules are different. The 19K + 8K example is in commerce. Therefore non-CDL Class D cannot apply.
Quote:
A driver with a Class D license can now operate a personal use vehicle
. Commerce is not personal use.
But down at the bottom is another kink in your statements. How about a Class A CDL that is restricted to under 26K? NY has them.
Quote:
If you have a CDL Class A license, or a Non-CDL Class C license with an "F" endorsement, that has a "02" restriction (vehicles with a GVWR of 18,000 lbs. or less), the restriction is now the same as a "01" restriction (no vehicle with a GVWR of more than 26,000 lbs.).

Last edited by GravelyNut; 01-27-2010 at 01:35 AM.
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  #62  
Old 01-27-2010, 09:56 AM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Lets try to get the quote tags right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
You made the comment that California was the only state that differs significantly in Post #47.
I've been showing that you that the states can set higher rules under their laws than the Feds require. Also that when you get drivers from different states, they too have been told that Class B can and does apply to GCWR not just GVWR. Ohio and Florida are two states that I do currently drive in and NY is on the list of places I'll be traveling to. CT is a state that is off my list of places I'll be going with my current truck and trailer because of their rules.
Why would you be concerned about another states CDL rules? You yourself said this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
The good thing is, the other states can't apply their CDL laws to anyone except their own people if you have another state's CDL license.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Post #52 links to non-CDL Class D, which if you aren't doing it for commerce is correct. If you aren't transporting in commerce, the rules are different.
I have already pointed out to you that you are confusing the 2 different definitions of CMV. NOT all CMV's need a CDL.

Do you think you need a CDL for everything used in commerce with a GCWR over 10k?

What about the flow chart that was previously posted? Is that wrong too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
The 19K + 8K example is in commerce. Therefore non-CDL Class D cannot apply.
AGAIN that is incorrect. NOT all commercial vehicles need a CDL.

Try using the flow chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Commerce is not personal use.
You don't say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
But down at the bottom is another kink in your statements. How about a Class A CDL that is restricted to under 26K? NY has them.
A kink You obviously have no comprehension of what you are reading.

A "F" Endorsement is for farm use

So again please tell me how the flow chart and post #52 are wrong.
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  #63  
Old 01-27-2010, 11:54 AM
GravelyNut GravelyNut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
Lets try to get the quote tags right.



Why would you be concerned about another states CDL rules? You yourself said this.
Because Ohio and Florida are states that I will have a CDL from. Currently Florida but it will be transfered to Ohio within a couple years. So there is the concern for those two. Now why are you concerned about Ohio's if you don't live there.


Quote:

I have already pointed out to you that you are confusing the 2 different definitions of CMV. NOT all CMV's need a CDL.

Do you think you need a CDL for everything used in commerce with a GCWR over 10k?
In some states, yes. Search the web and you'll find where NC got a guy for it in 2004. $300 fine said he did as did the judge. NY has an under 26K CDL Class A license.

Quote:

What about the flow chart that was previously posted? Is that wrong too?



AGAIN that is incorrect. NOT all commercial vehicles need a CDL.

Try using the flow chart.
Book vs state laws. State Laws win if stricter than the Fed's for those who have that state's license or tags. The book was copied from the Fed sample manual. Go to dmv.org and some of the manuals only have the covers changed while it says sample manual on other pages. Which when some states copied them, had a flaw in the flowchart. The Feds got it wrong on the very first line dropping down from the first box. If the NY book was right as you believe, then you wouldn't have the NY CDL Class A with 01 Restrictions.

Quote:
You don't say.



A kink You obviously have no comprehension of what you are reading.

A "F" Endorsement is for farm use

So again please tell me how the flow chart and post #52 are wrong.
Read the section quoted again.
Quote:
If you have a CDL Class A license, or a Non-CDL Class C license with an "F" endorsement, that has a "02" restriction (vehicles with a GVWR of 18,000 lbs. or less), the restriction is now the same as a "01" restriction (no vehicle with a GVWR of more than 26,000 lbs.).
Note the comma between the Class A and Class C with an F , the word "or" and the comma after the part about the non-CDL Class C. The A Class restricted doesn't say F. It says "02" is going to "01" Restriction and CDL Class A weight ratings are normally over 26K. No mention of that Class A being F restricted.

Same applies to your failure to note the ":" in NY's way of determining which is the heavier weight to go by. The : means this, what follows are the choices. They further broke it down under the MFG's ratings to a choice of GVWR or GCWR. So if the GCWR is higher than the GVWR, they can use it.

Quote:
01 TRUCK/TRL COMBI/TRUCK
Not Over 26,000 GVWR
is the NY definition of the 01 restriction. Shouldn't even be needed because it isn't over 26K by your thinking. But it's there. So back to your post 47, CA isn't the only state with odd licenses.
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  #64  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:52 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Because Ohio and Florida are states that I will have a CDL from. Currently Florida but it will be transfered to Ohio within a couple years. So there is the concern for those two. Now why are you concerned about Ohio's if you don't live there.
What's with your fetish with NY then. I have no real concern for any of them except the falsities you post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
In some states, yes. Search the web and you'll find where NC got a guy for it in 2004. $300 fine said he did as did the judge.
If you were so sure of this you would post a link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
NY has an under 26K CDL Class A license.
NY has a "O1" Restriction which has nothing to do with this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Book vs state laws. State Laws win if stricter than the Fed's for those who have that state's license or tags. The book was copied from the Fed sample manual. Go to dmv.org and some of the manuals only have the covers changed while it says sample manual on other pages. Which when some states copied them, had a flaw in the flowchart. The Feds got it wrong on the very first line dropping down from the first box. If the NY book was right as you believe, then you wouldn't have the NY CDL Class A with 01 Restrictions.
I never reference a dmv.org book/website. I only refer to each state's book/website.

The flow chart still works for NY. The O1 restriction is to keep guys that get there class A with a pickup and trailer from driving class 8 tractor/truck and trailer. Not so sure what is hard for you to understand about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Read the section quoted again. Note the comma between the Class A and Class C with an F , the word "or" and the comma after the part about the non-CDL Class C. The A Class restricted doesn't say F. It says "02" is going to "01" Restriction and CDL Class A weight ratings are normally over 26K. No mention of that Class A being F restricted.
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
Same applies to your failure to note the ":" in NY's way of determining which is the heavier weight to go by. The : means this, what follows are the choices. They further broke it down under the MFG's ratings to a choice of GVWR or GCWR. So if the GCWR is higher than the GVWR, they can use it.
Your continued failure to read and comprehend basic English is getting tedious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyNut View Post
is the NY definition of the 01 restriction. Shouldn't even be needed because it isn't over 26K by your thinking. But it's there. So back to your post 47, CA isn't the only state with odd licenses.
I have never said/thought anything of the such.

Here is the full O and O1 restriction.

Quote:
Truck/trailer Combination:
Truck/trailer combination only (O)
Truck cannot exceed 26,000 lbs. GVWR (O1)
See explanation above.

Again please tell how flow chart and post #52 are wrong.
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #65  
Old 01-27-2010, 02:48 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
NY has a "O1" Restriction which has nothing to do with this discussion.
Come to think about it, it does.

IF NY was to require a class B CDL for the 19/8k example rig. They would have to allow a driver to test in that rig. (And that is set by the feds)

If one were to get a class B with said rig it would then need a "O1" restriction to keep one from driving an over 26k straight truck. There isn't a "O1" restriction for class B.

Same with air brakes.


Again please tell how flow chart and post #52 are wrong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes
Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.

Last edited by Duffster; 01-27-2010 at 02:56 PM.
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  #66  
Old 01-27-2010, 04:42 PM
360ci 360ci is offline
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I concur, class B doesn't require an air brake endorsements, mostly so it's less work to train drivers on air brakes and it lowers initial vehicle cost by going the hydraulic route. In Canada, all class 8 (A) vehicles are produced with air brakes due to weight restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
What's with your fetish with NY then
Everything, high prices, pessimistic people abound the sidewalks talking to themselves in total chaos about absolutely nothing important. Besides, I heard they got a Big Apple there! ...somewhere.
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  #67  
Old 01-28-2010, 08:52 AM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360ci View Post
I concur, class B doesn't require an air brake endorsements, mostly so it's less work to train drivers on air brakes and it lowers initial vehicle cost by going the hydraulic route. In Canada, all class 8 (A) vehicles are produced with air brakes due to weight restrictions.
Not sure if I am following you. Most class B size trucks here have air brakes.
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #68  
Old 01-28-2010, 09:29 AM
R.L. Hale Landscaping LLC R.L. Hale Landscaping LLC is offline
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what i am not sure of is that if you need a cdl if the trailer is over 10,000 pounds even if your combined in under 26000.

say a 9900 1 ton truck with a 12,000 pound trailer. combined 21,900. Dot #'s and medical is all you need?

Its pretty clear that if you are over 26000 and towing over 10k trailer cdl A is required, but im not sure on towing over 10k trailer while being under 26k
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  #69  
Old 01-28-2010, 01:09 PM
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Duffster Duffster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.L. Hale Landscaping LLC View Post
what i am not sure of is that if you need a cdl if the trailer is over 10,000 pounds even if your combined in under 26000.
You need absolutely nothing, CDL wise that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.L. Hale Landscaping LLC View Post
say a 9900 1 ton truck with a 12,000 pound trailer. combined 21,900. Dot #'s and medical is all you need?
Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.L. Hale Landscaping LLC View Post
Its pretty clear that if you are over 26000 and towing over 10k trailer cdl A is required, but im not sure on towing over 10k trailer while being under 26k
See above.
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Your argument falls flatter than a 3 day old roadkill squirrel.
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  #70  
Old 01-28-2010, 05:00 PM
360ci 360ci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
Not sure if I am following you. Most class B size trucks here have air brakes.
Class 'B' here isn't a truck, it's a school bus license. GVWR doesn't surpass a class 7 weight rating, as 99% of all buses are single rear axle. With a class B, you can also drive a class F, or mini-bus, or coach bus which is also class C. Most coach companies want their drivers to have a B, as the B adds additional road training, such as railway crossings, etc. Almost all coach buses however have air brakes due to the weight of the vehicle.

The licensing varies here from province to province, just as it does down there - state to state. There are a lot of federal regulations and endorsements so each province is on the same page with one another to narrow down complications for operators, and business owners alike.
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