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  #21  
Old 09-03-2006, 10:19 AM
lawnspecialties lawnspecialties is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS
......We need displacement. 7XX cc's aren't enough for what we have.

900 to 1000 and fuel injection to keep it efficient.
Amen my brother. But what I read on it stated "carburated".

Tacoma, you may be right. The dealer I got that from could have easily been guessing.

......Almost late for church. I'll post later what I hear from Hustler. See ya'll.
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  #22  
Old 09-03-2006, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacoma200
I thought DFI stood for direct fuel injection instead of digital. I may be wrong? No expert at these small engines.
You are absolutely correct, I just don't know what the difference is in the direct fuel injection and the electronic fuel injection, do we have anybody with this knowledge reading the post. I figure direct is some kind of mechanical injection but I don't really know, I wish someone would please explain. I would like for someone to also explain why they want to maintain a fluid cooling system rather than an air cooled system. I just have never had any problems with the air cooled Kohler's but the air cooled Kawasaki's I've had seemed a little more temperamental.
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  #23  
Old 09-03-2006, 02:46 PM
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Envy Lawn Service Envy Lawn Service is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wriken
I heard rumors of a big HP machine coming from cub.
Now that interests me... what have you heard.

To me a 33hp Generac 60" makes some sense.
Maybe something in that range in diesel power... but I'm sure the 28hp CAT fills that nice.

I'm wondering it Lesco is ever going to release the 28hp Generac 60" Widetrack unit... or if they just scratched that totally....
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  #24  
Old 09-03-2006, 02:48 PM
pugs pugs is offline
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In the case of Kawaski I think it means digital fuel injection.

Direct fuel injection is where the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber...not into the intake manifold or port.

The Kawasaki fuel injection is an open loop system. In simple terms it uses a bunch of tables to figure out how much fuel to inject based on intake manifold pressure, intake air temperature...not really sure what all else.

The Kohler system is a closed loop system. After it gets up to operating temperature it begins using readings from an oxygen sensor. This system can be much more fuel efficient. By using the O2 sensor to keep the mixture closer to the optimal mixture you only burn what you need. While an open loop system is using pre calculated tables which are not allways a perfect fit for the air the system is breathing and the particular load the engine is under.
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  #25  
Old 09-03-2006, 04:04 PM
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Envy Lawn Service Envy Lawn Service is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugs
In the case of Kawaski I think it means digital fuel injection.

Direct fuel injection is where the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber...not into the intake manifold or port.

The Kawasaki fuel injection is an open loop system. In simple terms it uses a bunch of tables to figure out how much fuel to inject based on intake manifold pressure, intake air temperature...not really sure what all else.

The Kohler system is a closed loop system. After it gets up to operating temperature it begins using readings from an oxygen sensor. This system can be much more fuel efficient. By using the O2 sensor to keep the mixture closer to the optimal mixture you only burn what you need. While an open loop system is using pre calculated tables which are not allways a perfect fit for the air the system is breathing and the particular load the engine is under.
So that would explain the lackluster fuel economy reports I have heard on the 29hp DFI.
I've heard they DRINK fuel bad.
I've heard like 2 gal/hr.
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  #26  
Old 09-03-2006, 04:09 PM
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tacoma200 tacoma200 is offline
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Good to know

Quote:
Originally Posted by pugs
In the case of Kawaski I think it means digital fuel injection.

Direct fuel injection is where the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber...not into the intake manifold or port.

The Kawasaki fuel injection is an open loop system. In simple terms it uses a bunch of tables to figure out how much fuel to inject based on intake manifold pressure, intake air temperature...not really sure what all else.

The Kohler system is a closed loop system. After it gets up to operating temperature it begins using readings from an oxygen sensor. This system can be much more fuel efficient. By using the O2 sensor to keep the mixture closer to the optimal mixture you only burn what you need. While an open loop system is using pre calculated tables which are not always a perfect fit for the air the system is breathing and the particular load the engine is under.
That's good to know. Sound's like Kohler is using a more efficient system which surprises me since I always think of Kawasaki as leading edge. Sounds like your saying the Kohler system is simpler but maybe more efficient. I must be thinking about other types engines that use DFI (Direct Fuel Injection)which is directly injecting fuel into the combustion chamber intead of a manifold. I was probably thinking of an outboard or something. Thanks.
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  #27  
Old 09-03-2006, 04:55 PM
pugs pugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacoma200
That's good to know. Sound's like Kohler is using a more efficient system which surprises me since I always think of Kawasaki as leading edge. Sounds like your saying the Kohler system is simpler but maybe more efficient. I must be thinking about other types engines that use DFI (Direct Fuel Injection)which is directly injecting fuel into the combustion chamber intead of a manifold. I was probably thinking of an outboard or something. Thanks.
No, the Kohler system would be as complex or more complex. Kohler basically went to Bosch and had them add fuel injection to its engines.

I really dont know much about the Kawasaki system as I have never worked on one. I have been to updates where they talk about them. I think a Kohler update gave us some info on both systems a while back.

In theory the Kawasaki system should be simpler. Whether it really is or not.

See the Kohler will run in Open loop using tables and what not until the exhaust heats up enough for the O2 readings to be useable. It probably waits for the oil to hit a certain temp before switching to closed loop.

I dunno about either system if they are batch fire or true sequential EFI. That will make a difference in fuel consumption also. Batch fire means all or a batch of injectors fire at the same time and put a little bit of fuel in to the manifold...even on exhaust strokes. Sequential only fires on the intake stroke of that particular cylinder.

I have hard that as well about the kawasaki system using more fuel. I would think they would be a bit better than carbs, but the Kohler EFI is alot better on fuel. I have not worked on the Kawasaki and obviously have not used either of them enough to compare fuel savings.
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  #28  
Old 09-03-2006, 07:14 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws
You are absolutely correct, I just don't know what the difference is in the direct fuel injection and the electronic fuel injection, do we have anybody with this knowledge reading the post. I figure direct is some kind of mechanical injection but I don't really know, I wish someone would please explain. I would like for someone to also explain why they want to maintain a fluid cooling system rather than an air cooled system. I just have never had any problems with the air cooled Kohler's but the air cooled Kawasaki's I've had seemed a little more temperamental.
I am incorrect and Pug's is correct, Kawasaki's DFI means (Digital Fuel Injection) and not Direct Fuel Injection as I thought, thanks for the information Pug's. Kawasaki claims their DFI system will save fuel also, man it would be nice to know the difference in fuel usage between the EFI and the DFI on comparable engines which would be the Kawasaki 29 DFI and the Kohler 28 EFI.
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Last edited by puppypaws; 09-03-2006 at 07:18 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-03-2006, 07:43 PM
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tacoma200 tacoma200 is offline
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Three pages of post on a rumor (probably untrue). Wish it were true but I doubt it.
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  #30  
Old 09-03-2006, 10:56 PM
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Shady Brook Shady Brook is offline
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Tacoma

Nah, it is only one page of posts based on speculation! Change your settings brother, it is easier to read.

If they do come out with a bigger stronger mower, lets hope it is superior to the 30 Kohler. I am not impressed with this motor. I hate that it can be running fine, and you idle it to about 1/3 idle and it will just die. It is cold blooded and will die repeatedly until fully warm. It also nearly always requires partial choke to start to turn the blades or it will die when cold, or semi cold. It will not turn doubles any easier then the 27. It should not have been released til all the bugs were worked out, and even the fix does not fix everything. A real waste if you asked me.

I will wait good and long before I buy any new mower engine til I am sure it is proven. I trusted Kohler, and I don't feel they came through for me.
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