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  #81  
Old 09-09-2006, 12:49 AM
pugs pugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickhippy
If what you all are saying about the belts, and I dont doubt you now, I stand corrected! What your all saying makes sence for sure!
That said, I would still perfer a shaft to the long belt! If its good enough for out fronts and large commercial ztrs, it should be good enough for the standard sized ztrs.
Out fronts have a better arguement since some of the larger ones are running the shaft directly off the horizontal shaft engine with a clutch...no belts at all. I have an old Cushman diesel at the shop now that works like this. It could probably be done with some of the larger ZTR's as well. I dont know any off hand that do it that way though...

As for a long belt...maybe the ones that use a huge single belt to drive the deck...but most of the better machines use one short belt to run from the PTO to the deck and another belt on the deck itself.
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  #82  
Old 09-09-2006, 12:58 AM
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I got the diesel cuz its my 1st ZTR and i plan on keepin it for a long time.
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  #83  
Old 09-09-2006, 01:15 AM
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Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
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Iseki (Massey), Scag TT and Sabretooth, Kubota, John Deere(997), New big Toro ZTR's all have shaft drive so it is possible. Now I dont know the details on how there set up, but they are shaft deck drive! And you know the Scag TT is only a 29dfi where as the others are diesel.
Why do cars and trucks etc use a drive shaft and not a belt?
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  #84  
Old 09-09-2006, 04:04 AM
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Envy Lawn Service Envy Lawn Service is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickhippy
Iseki (Massey), Scag TT and Sabretooth, Kubota, John Deere(997), New big Toro ZTR's all have shaft drive so it is possible. Now I dont know the details on how there set up, but they are shaft deck drive! And you know the Scag TT is only a 29dfi where as the others are diesel.
Why do cars and trucks etc use a drive shaft and not a belt?
Well, I think what everyone is getting at is this...

What is the real point of a shaft drive? Unless it is direct drive off the engine crankshaft or direct drive off a transaxle that is direct driven... there is a belt involved between the engine crankshaft and the shaft drive down to the deck. Then with a shaft driven deck, that's all it is... shaft drive down TO the deck, where it runs into a gearbox, which is designed to transfer the power to a drive pulley. Then there is a belt involved on the deck itself that the drive pulley uses to run the driven (spindle) pulleys.

So unless it is all shaft drive direct from the crankshaft, to gearbox spindles similar to what Walker has on their timed decks... then belts are involved anyways.

In my mind there is nothing wrong with shaft drive, nor belts, just doesn't matter that much to me. I'll take whatever the mower I like has.

Pugs is right though. Most of the best belt drives are a 2 belt system. One deck drive belt from the engine/PTO to the deck. Then a second belt on the deck to drive the pulleys. Toro has the best single belt setup on the Turbo Force that I recall seeing, which they went to a lot of effort to achieve. Lesco has the best all around 2-belt setup I've seen.
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  #85  
Old 09-09-2006, 06:13 AM
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Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
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Im sorta over this whole topic. All this was about is that I would prefer shaft as opposed to belt. I never brought up how it would be set up or anything, it was all hypothetical about what my ideal machine would be due to the fact that the 180" belt costs me as much as $180. In 400hrs thats cost me $460 or there abouts.(3 belts ranging from I think $120, $160 and $180) Personally, I would think a metal shaft would be better than a rubber belt, thats what the bigger diesel ztrs and Scag use after all.
Ok, so it may suck a little HP but this whole thread was about a 34hp engine. If Scags 29dfi engine can run a shaft, a 34hp sure as hell could. Im surprised it seems most are aginst the idea! Im also supprised know ones brought up the vert 'v' horizontal shaft engine!

Now can we move on to the ROPS or 26" tires! haaaaa
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  #86  
Old 09-09-2006, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pietro
36 hp is overkill.
No it's not. Put 21cc pumps and fast wheel motors on ANY ZTR and tell me 36hp is too much! This pump/motor combo would bring your Kubota oil burner to it's knees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pietro
I own a 60 inch Z master with the 23 HP kubota Diesel motor........the thing flies and has plenty of power. Granted 23 hp isnt much, but its got almost 45 ft lbs of tq, with is way more than a 30 hp gas........oh and I can go about a week and a half on a full tank....
They have 42lb/ft of torque, and yes...23hp. Not enough to offest the cost and weight penalties. If they offered 28+hp, then your talking.
The 30hp Kohler has 47.1lb/ft of torque.
What are you getting for mileage? How many gal/hr?

Also, good luck getting the rest of that mower to last more than 2-3000hrs.
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  #87  
Old 09-09-2006, 06:45 AM
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My JD F935's were shaft driven. They really had to be. A belt couldn't do what that machines did.

It's shaft was driven off a electric clutch (much like ours on todays ZTR's), and off that clutch came 2 belts in tandem. This drove a 5' long shaft up under your feet. Then you hooked up your driveshaft to the deck to that. Once those universal shafts got worn, or your slip joint got worn, it was vibration city. For these reasons alone (maintenance, and wear) I will really research any future mower with a shaft with universal joints.
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  #88  
Old 09-09-2006, 11:34 AM
pugs pugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickhippy
Iseki (Massey), Scag TT and Sabretooth, Kubota, John Deere(997), New big Toro ZTR's all have shaft drive so it is possible. Now I dont know the details on how there set up, but they are shaft deck drive! And you know the Scag TT is only a 29dfi where as the others are diesel.
Why do cars and trucks etc use a drive shaft and not a belt?
Cars and trucks have the engine driving a transmission which drives the shaft. Once you put it in gear and let out the clutch in a manual trans setup the driveshaft is basically locked to the engine as far as the clutch will hold it. No belts transfering any of the power.

Now obviously a pair of small matched belts driving the shaft will probably slip a little less and be alot cheaper.

Hey Envy, do you know what size belts(width) they use on the Lescos? I have never measured one or looked one up as most of the time they get them right from the Lesco dealer...but they allways look a little small to me(width wise) compared to what others use.
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  #89  
Old 09-09-2006, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS
No it's not. Put 21cc pumps and fast wheel motors on ANY ZTR and tell me 36hp is too much! This pump/motor combo would bring your Kubota oil burner to it's knees.

They have 42lb/ft of torque, and yes...23hp. Not enough to offest the cost and weight penalties. If they offered 28+hp, then your talking.
The 30hp Kohler has 47.1lb/ft of torque.
What are you getting for mileage? How many gal/hr?

Also, good luck getting the rest of that mower to last more than 2-3000hrs.

I was told by my 3 local dealers the kubota motor was the best choice for longevity. My next ZTR will be a gas, because the diesels are expensive, but ive heard the higher hp gas engines chug fuel, but i havent had experience with them. I got also got 0% apr on the diesel, which was a plus. Ive never had experience with the higher hp motors, but have heard from a guy with a 30 hp 62 randsom that it drinks gas........whereas 12 gallons lasts me about 75 mixed cuts.....some being large and a majority of them are 1/4 acres. 34 hp just sounds like its going to be $$ to fill it up
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  #90  
Old 09-09-2006, 01:05 PM
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Envy Lawn Service Envy Lawn Service is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugs
Hey Envy, do you know what size belts(width) they use on the Lescos? I have never measured one or looked one up as most of the time they get them right from the Lesco dealer...but they allways look a little small to me(width wise) compared to what others use.
Had to look it up in the parts manual and then measure the width of those on the mower. I've never had to replace any belts on it yet...

Looks like they are all 1/2" wide.

Drive belt -> doesn't specify length

PTO - deck belt (60") 91.2 (54") 87.2 (48") 83.2

Spindle belt (60") 122.3 (54") 114.3 (48") 105.3

I'm not sure how close to perfect length they need to be or whatever, or what aftermarket type belts might work because I have not needed to replace them yet, nor would I look to an aftermarket belt. These belts are some kind of tuff... I know that much because one of mine was damaged day-one and it's still lasted all this time.

I'd say they usually just go get them right from the Lesco dealer because they are an excellent belt that's exact replacement and more importantly they don't have a dealer trying to charge them $90-$100 or more each for belts.
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