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  #11  
Old 08-20-2001, 10:11 PM
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John, that is not the point. He said that he wanted the thrashy, noisy Kohler and didnt discuss what he was going to do with the customer. I am not saying one is better than the other, but 5000 hours is definitely exagerating. I dont care how much maintenence you do, that isnt going to happen.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2001, 10:18 PM
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The 14hp Vangards around here are single cylinders, did they
make a 14 hp twin also?
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  #13  
Old 08-20-2001, 10:21 PM
John DiMartino John DiMartino is offline
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5000 is no exaggeration,it is honest hours,i am coming up a 4300 on one of my greensmaster,and have 3925 on another,they are 1987,and 1988's,they have kohlers,and have been rebuilt a few times.In the early 90's Toro switched to the briggs 16hp it will run 5000+ easily.I did a lot of checking into the Vanguard before i bought one,I was leary of it,being a Briggs and all.These engines are tough,they are on Toro greensmasters,the run every day,a lot of hours,and I do not exaggerate.New greensmowers are pushing $20K ,we,and other golf courses run the older units into the ground,after they run 5 yrs/2000 hrs on greens,they go to collars and aprons,for 5 yrs,then to tees,we have a 1967 unit,a Jacobsen that we use for backup,it has over 8000 hrs on it,still runs.
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Old 08-20-2001, 11:03 PM
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I realize there is a major difference between briggs and its vanguard models, I think the Vanguard is a decent engine, in the twin models. I have seen too many valve problems with Vanguards, though. I am surprised to hear of your engines lasting that long. I have never seen one last that long, and I have been around tons of engines. I used to service 9 home Depots, True Green, RBI, Brickman, you name it, I served them in Denver. Maybe you take care of them better than these guys.
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Old 08-21-2001, 12:25 AM
John DiMartino John DiMartino is offline
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There is one thing I can think of ,to explain the reason briggs Vaguards live so long on Toro's.They are governed to 2850 max RPM's.There are stickers over the mower,saying do not run engine above 2850RPM,or warranty on machine,and engine will be void.It says permanent damage will be done to the machine.We have ours set at 2800,it sounds like its running so slow,but thats 2800-this may expalin why they run so long.
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  #16  
Old 08-21-2001, 11:45 AM
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Ahh, I see. Interesting and a good point.
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2001, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by John DiMartino
There is one thing I can think of ,to explain the reason briggs Vaguards live so long on Toro's.They are governed to 2850 max RPM's.There are stickers over the mower,saying do not run engine above 2850RPM,or warranty on machine,and engine will be void.It says permanent damage will be done to the machine.We have ours set at 2800,it sounds like its running so slow,but thats 2800-this may expalin why they run so long.
John,
I could be wrong here, but doesnt Toro set the engine for the rpm listed ?
I was under the impression that the hydraulics on some of those units are rpm sensitive.

Anyways, I am a Briggs MST (master service tech) I personaly have seen Vanguard twins last over 5000 hrs...

Another good reason they may run em lower is that most of the engines used on outdoor power equipment reach there max torque curve around the 2800 to 3000 rpm........

Later
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  #18  
Old 08-21-2001, 05:26 PM
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Pj wrote:
...........................
Another good reason they may run em lower is that most of the engines used on outdoor power equipment reach there max torque curve around the 2800 to 3000 rpm........
...........................

Wouldn't you want an engine to drop into the peak torque range as load increases instead of dropping out of the peak torque range as load increases?
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Old 08-21-2001, 08:05 PM
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Not wanting to cause trouble, but what are the model and type
numbers of a 14hp twin Vangard? I just have never seen one.
I want to look it up on Brigg's site.
Fish
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  #20  
Old 08-21-2001, 09:27 PM
John DiMartino John DiMartino is offline
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My Toro's all have 2850 as the max RPM's.Im sure it is the hydraulics that are the limit,because the Jacbsen greenking has the same Briggs engine,but it runs at 3600 max.There are alot of greensmasters out there with over 5000 hrs,I would think more so than commercial lawn care stuff,since greensmowers tend to cost 3-5X as much,and are usually maintained better and have a better life than a mower bouncing arouind o na trailer all day,so I would think they would last longer.
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