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Old 06-23-2007, 12:32 PM
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ChampionLS ChampionLS is offline
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Is there a UL listing mark on the Quick Disk?

Most of the time, a manufacturer has a UL listing on "the entire system", not just one component. Items identified with a separate UL mark are safe,and suitable for use alone. Hadco's LVC3 was the only pierce point connector that was separately listed and available for our products. They are also made from a glass reinforced Nylon which makes them very durable. On a typical installation for Evening Star, they are placed in the 1" thick sand bed under concrete pavingstones, and must withstand heavy vertical loads without failing.
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Old 06-23-2007, 12:37 PM
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Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
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and they must be in NEC violation because NEC requires 6 in deep not in the sand under a paver. We been over this.. the code is the code... 6 inches my friend sorry. The jackets of cable dont "heal" there is still a point of entry with ALL pierce point connectors. Use thoes on a coastal app then show me the wire in a year or 2 and tell me it aint black.

Wait. I got one right here... Im gonna go do a marsh test on this thing... its killing me to know.

Not trying to bash your product anthony but pierce points are bad. Some are worse than others but they are bad.
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Old 06-23-2007, 01:42 PM
Chris J Chris J is offline
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FYI, there is a UL mark on the disc itself.....but I still wouldn't use it if it had a UL flag waving off of it.
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:06 AM
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We been over this.. the code is the code... 6 inches my friend sorry.


The code: it's more of a guide really than a rule. (yaarrgh)
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:08 AM
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We been over this.. the code is the code... 6 inches my friend sorry.


The code: it's more of a guide really than a rule. (yaarrgh)
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:09 AM
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Sorry, guess I must have gotten a little excited over this one to hit submit twice.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:04 PM
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ChampionLS ChampionLS is offline
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Bill,
I know what your saying, and if I were installing lighting as my full time job, I wouldn't use the connector either, but as for installing lights such as ours (at only 4 watts each) There is only .33 of an Amp per fixture, so there is not going to be heat build up or a loss of electrical connection by using the pierce point connection. The UL 1838 code reads that the secondary wiring can be buried up to 6" (thats 0"-6"), but does not have to be 6". You could leave it exposed, although that would be sloppy.

Our lighting system can not be installed any other way (without extensive labor) It was designed to give the hardscaping industry a reliable accent light, install quickly and last forever. Our system is UL listed for both US and Canada, with the secondary wiring being routed in the sand layer under pavingstones. It can also be ran in Turf (if there is turf) next to a paver area. At this point, one could use direct burial wire nuts and splices.
About 90% of the installations are done with the tap connector in the sand layer (no cutting of the secondary) The reason for this is, there would be no way to assume where lighting fixtures are to be placed, until a pavingstone project is completed. Secondary wiring is immediately placed on the sand bed just prior to placing pavers on it. Fixture connections can be done when the work is complete by simply removing 2 stones, tapping in, and placing the light.

How reliable are they? They are 100% submersible. We have clients with lights in high water areas prone to flooding, and on decks, docks.

Try it yourself. I sent a few of you samples. Hook it up, place it in your yard and leave it there.

If you want to see the fixture in a fish tank of water at a trade show (it was submerged for three days) please visit this link:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=175209
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2007, 06:16 PM
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ChampionLS ChampionLS is offline
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Ooops.. I left out another important fact:
Each Lamp Module has NYK Anti-Corrosive compound on the receptacle. This further helps water-tight the electrical connection to the Wire Harness. We do sell 10 ounce tubes of NYK as an accessory, should you need more on the jobsite. (This is the SAME product Hadco carries as their accessory) We just offer the 10oz. tubes. In a coastal environment, I would put a liberal amount on each half of the tap connector, prior to installing it on the wire.

Keep in mind, 90% of the time the connector is embedded in the sand layer under the pavingstones, where it is protected from the conditions above grade. Pavingstones are compacted after installation and theres not much room for water infiltration beyond that.

Tim:
How did you make out? I know you placed an order.
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  #19  
Old 06-28-2007, 12:24 AM
Chris J Chris J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionLS View Post
Nobody in their right mind would pay $8.75 for a wire connector. (I hope not!) We do buy 500,000 of the the Hadco LVC3 connector for a fraction of that, but it is the only cULus listed connector that was suitable for our Evening Star Accent Lights. (and it will connect 12/2 OR 10/3 to 18/2)

We've tried the Disk but it was not a UL recognized component. Are there any listing marks on the ones you guys have?
ChampionLS,
I need some educating. 12/2 & 10/3 but not 10/2? Why? What is the purpose for 10/3 anyway? I've never used it.
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  #20  
Old 06-29-2007, 02:02 AM
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ChampionLS ChampionLS is offline
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Good Question!
Heres it's purpose:

Using 12/2, there are only so many lights you can run on one circuit. Our product line (Evening Star) Lamp Modules are 4 watts each, so that's maximum 75 lights per circuit (300 watts).

Now by using 10/3 and the double sided tap connector (Hadco LVC3) you can run longer distance and have up to 150 lamps per cable run, by using a 600 Watt transformer, split into two 300 Watt circuits and alternating the tap connector. Best part about this is your laying only one cable.

Now for the advanced installer, by using 10/3, you can also have two switched circuits by laying one simple cable too. it allows for endless design possibilities.

The tap connector is only rated for 12/2 or 10/3, but some field testing and it will work with 10/2 also.

Here are some photos showing the addition of a paver walkway being added onto an existing patio. The main cable is cut, and a new loop spliced in. The pavers are laid right on the sand bed, and covering up the wire. After the walkway is finished, we will ascetically mark out for paver lighting and install a fixture to a drilled out pavingstone. The connection will be made on the taught wire in the 1" of sand with the tap connector. (no wire loop, no cutting or splicing) The tap connector allows 10 second connection of the fixture to the secondary wire, and should a fixture need to be moved/re-located, it can be done by simply loosening a Philip's screw and re-using the connector.

More photos tomorrow...
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