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  #81  
Old 01-23-2009, 09:33 PM
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Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
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Just to add. I had a hunkering about something and Mike confirmed this. We have both run about 150' on 12-2 with 70-80w loads and still be in the mid to high 11v range. with 10ga you could even do a 100w hub with 15v tap and still be kosher.

Your comment about "needless to say a 15v tap isnt going to work in that situation" is unfounded and downright wrong. Just because you made a boo boo in your layout and was unwilling to run the required wire to make the trans installed work doesnt mean the trans has short comings.
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  #82  
Old 01-24-2009, 12:09 AM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is online now
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man, this thread is taking a life of it's own. I'd like to make sure and clarify that I normally only load to 85%, but to test the ryco trans, I loaded one to 110% for testing puroposes only. That unit is holding up well after over a year.

The FX lighting charts indeed back up the 150-180 foot range, 12 guage on a 15 volt tap. I use plenty of 10 guage, on that chart and in my experience, it should take you to 300 feet away,even on an 80 watt load in the high 11's on a 15volt tap. I rarely go much farther than 300, but it does happen, and I have gone with dual 10's to do a 40 watt load or less on each run.
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  #83  
Old 01-24-2009, 12:51 AM
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NightLightingFX NightLightingFX is offline
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This thread is not about my short comings as an engineer of a lighting system. If you want to attack me about my engineering than I guess we can start another thread. The bottom line is from what I have seen I feel the Unique transformer has less voltage drop when loaded than the Magnum. (Period!) I will admit I did not compare them in a scientific way. There is a chance I overlooked something and maybe they are similar in holding a load. But one thing I am pretty sure of, and that is that the Magnum isn't better than Uniques transformers when it comes to maintaining voltage when loaded. I guess the next step is to do a head to head comparison. Someone needs to get a 600w Magnum and a 600w Unique transformer and compare their voltage drop under load.
~Ned
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  #84  
Old 01-24-2009, 08:53 AM
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Why ? no one is denying they both hold thier load. I dont get this. You FEEL the unique didnt drop as much under load but you didnt "scientifically test them" Thats an unfounded statement.

Im not attacking you about your engineering but I am saying your layout in that situation was flawed because you already had a 15v box on site and added to the system in such a way it caused you to have to go to a 22v box then you got mad at the 15v box. Thats like getting upset it rained on you when the weather man says there is a storm coming. You knew what to expect but your day didnt go as planned. If you didnt like 15v transformers you should not have bought it in the first place.

David I never implyed (or at least didnt mean to) that you go around loading transformers to 110% and your testing is clear. I am only conceared for neds half baked testing and claims when he has no evidence to back it up. I would test it myself but I dont happen to have a unique here at this time. Does anyone know where I can get a resistor that would simulate 20 amp loads ? I could easily test several brands I have here including Kichler...coppermoon...nightscaping...vista and the magnum. I think I just need a ryco and unique

Last edited by Pro-Scapes; 01-24-2009 at 08:59 AM.
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  #85  
Old 01-24-2009, 06:43 PM
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NightLightingFX NightLightingFX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightLightingFX View Post
From what I have experienced NOTHING is as good as Unique's transformers. Nothing will hold a load as good as Unique's transformer.
Billy, as far as I am concerned, this is what our debate is about. When I said, “from what I have experienced NOTHING is as good as Unique’s transformers.” I meant nothing was as good as Unique’s transformer when it comes to holding a load. Apples and oranges have nothing to do with it. If you like .5 volt increases in your taps then that is an apple if you like voltage taps higher than 15 volts then that is an orange.

When I use a Unique transformer very rarely do I have to readjust voltage taps to homeruns due to voltage drop. There is very little voltage drop to the transformer when loaded. I am so confident in the Unique transformers that I will dial in to the proper voltage for my first hub I install even though a full load hasn’t been placed on the transformer yet. After I install my last hub/homerun I will recheck my hubs to ensure proper voltage. Vary rarely will I have to make adjustments with a Unique transformer.

My experience with the Magnum isn’t the same. I assumed the Magnum would be the same as a Unique’s transformer under a load. That wasn’t the case. I had to go back and do a lot of re-adjusting to my taps. So based on my experience the Magnum doesn’t handle a load as well as a Unique’s transformer.

Billy, when you use the Magnum transformer. When you install your very first homerun will you put it on a little bit higher tap knowing that under a full load it will bring that voltage level down to an ideal reading? Or do you have to do very much readjusting of voltage taps do to voltage drop after you have finished attaching all your homeruns? If you answered “YES” then we really have nothing to disagree on. Unless, you have seen more voltage drop on the Unique transformers than I have described.

If you answered “NO” then there must be some biases and unknown anomalies going on. Hell, I have a hard time believing that the Ryco transformer isn’t experiencing more voltage drop than what Dave is describing. But if Dave says it is doing what he says. I guess it is something to consider.
~Ned
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  #86  
Old 01-24-2009, 08:51 PM
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To tell you the truth I have experience little drop with the magnums and the uniques alike. either you have an "unexplained" situation like I did in the "the unexplained" thread or I urge you to perform your own tests. Magnums are designed to give a full output under load. I have yet to see one put out less than the rated voltage at each tap even with a 4.9 amp load on the primary which is darn near full to capacity. 15.1 v with 121v incoming.

Again I never claimed the uniques do not hold voltage. They do hold the voltage better than most transformers out there but your 1 magnum experience is no way compareable to mikes 400+ magnums or my half a dozen uniques and many multiple trans projects with the magnums.

Lets just drop this subject. Your happy with uniques. I love unique gear too but the magnum is the unit for me and others who want the utmost control over this installations. This is going to get no where and next thing you know we will be comparing the big smokey fixture you love so much to uniques.
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  #87  
Old 01-24-2009, 09:20 PM
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NightLightingFX NightLightingFX is offline
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Originally Posted by Pro-Scapes View Post
Lets just drop this subject. Your happy with uniques. I love unique gear too but the magnum is the unit for me and others who want the utmost control over this installations.
Agreed, How did you know I liked the Big Smoky fixtures?
~Ned
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  #88  
Old 01-25-2009, 09:03 AM
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You just told me Shame using a 2 year fixture with a 20 yr trans. Step it up and use the unique or coppermoon fixtures.
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  #89  
Old 01-25-2009, 01:49 PM
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NightLightingFX NightLightingFX is offline
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Yes I am a little embarressed in admitting I like the "Big Smoky," but regardless were it comes from it is a pretty good fixture. I like the adjustable shroud - Unique or Coppermoon don't have a directional fixture with an adjustable shroud. It is a nice hearty bronze/brass fixture that cost just a little more than the very famous and favorite "Kichler 15384 aluminum." I just can't see myself using an aluminum fixture when I can use a bronze/brass fixture.

I will admit the organization I am getting it from isn't as respected as the likes of Unique and Coppermoon. First it was Lightcraft where Bruce took care of my personally. They had some initial problems with the fixtures some couldn't fit lenses in them. And orders were screwed-up but they always went the extra mile to make me happy, so I hung in there with them.

Then they went to using a spring loaded fixture to enable the use of putting in lens. That was an engineering nightmare. What would happen is the socket wires for the lamp would get all twisted up when you screwed the fixture closed. (WARNING! never use a spring loaded fixture that is closed-up by screwing the fixture togather.) Obviously I have had some maintainance issues, but they always bent over backwards to take care of me. Now, the product is right - it isn't spring loaded and I can put as many lens I need in them. Except, now the name has changed to Advantage Light Source. I wonder what they will be called tommorrow?

At some point down the road your advice to "Step it up an use unique or coppermoon fixtures" will probably be right. I wouldn't recomend anyone to do what I have done. It probably isn't worth the hassle, but what the Hell.

FYI, I have been using a lot of the Coppermoon CM360s. My "Well Light" of choice is the CM360 or the Cast MR16 well - (I haven't used this one yet but I am impressed by it and I will in the future) My path lights of choice is Uniques "Brass Knight series" - They are reasonably priced and they match the "Endeavour" which I like very much and use when ever I can.

OK, now I have really spilled my guts
~Ned
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  #90  
Old 01-25-2009, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightLightingFX View Post
Yes I am a little embarressed in admitting I like the "Big Smoky," but regardless were it comes from it is a pretty good fixture. I like the adjustable shroud - Unique or Coppermoon don't have a directional fixture with an adjustable shroud. It is a nice hearty bronze/brass fixture that cost just a little more than the very famous and favorite "Kichler 15384 aluminum." I just can't see myself using an aluminum fixture when I can use a bronze/brass fixture.

I will admit the organization I am getting it from isn't as respected as the likes of Unique and Coppermoon. First it was Lightcraft where Bruce took care of my personally. They had some initial problems with the fixtures some couldn't fit lenses in them. And orders were screwed-up but they always went the extra mile to make me happy, so I hung in there with them.

Then they went to using a spring loaded fixture to enable the use of putting in lens. That was an engineering nightmare. What would happen is the socket wires for the lamp would get all twisted up when you screwed the fixture closed. (WARNING! never use a spring loaded fixture that is closed-up by screwing the fixture togather.) Obviously I have had some maintainance issues, but they always bent over backwards to take care of me. Now, the product is right - it isn't spring loaded and I can put as many lens I need in them. Except, now the name has changed to Advantage Light Source. I wonder what they will be called tommorrow?

At some point down the road your advice to "Step it up an use unique or coppermoon fixtures" will probably be right. I wouldn't recomend anyone to do what I have done. It probably isn't worth the hassle, but what the Hell.

FYI, I have been using a lot of the Coppermoon CM360s. My "Well Light" of choice is the CM360 or the Cast MR16 well - (I haven't used this one yet but I am impressed by it and I will in the future) My path lights of choice is Uniques "Brass Knight series" - They are reasonably priced and they match the "Endeavour" which I like very much and use when ever I can.

OK, now I have really spilled my guts
~Ned
For just a few bucks more than your paying for that fixture you could have stepped it up to the unique intrepid or coppermoon cm125 both of which have caused me zero issues. The cm125 with a louver is a great light.

If your source keeps changing the product and keeps changing the name and such how do you think its going to be in 5 yrs when you need parts for that fixture and they are discontinued ? In the end you are not saving money nor are you providing a value to your clients if you have to have people bend over backwards to make it right. I would also be more conceared if that source was going to be there in several years. I will admit the smokey isnt a half bad design but it does have its flaws.

Bottom line is if your having issues and orders are being screwed up your not saving money in the end. My advice is deal with reputable sources obtaining reputable materials. Leave the shady sources to the trunk slammers. You seem very serious about lighting and alot of what I have seen of your designs are nice but when I think of big smokeys and duct tape it makes one wonder a bit.
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