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Old 10-24-2007, 03:22 PM
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting's Avatar
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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Cooper Lumiere 203 Bullet

I used to use a LOT of Lumiere 203 BZ bullet fixtures for downlighting... Until I accidently discovered something odd about them.

I broke one, the stem shattered, and inside I found that the two lead wires had been stripped about 1/4" long of insulation. There were bare wires inside the stems!

I had been having some failures out of the box, about 2-3% of the fixtures were shorting. So I grabbed another perfectly good fixture and smashed the stem.... Same thing!

I contacted the company on a couple of occassions, both the local rep and the factory but never ever got any sort of reply. So I stopped using them.

Does anyone have any insight into this problem? Have you found the same thing? Anyone know why?

Have a great day.
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2007, 03:56 PM
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Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
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Found some focus DL13 brs bullets like this as well... they were assembled with plain blue butt crimps... no protection...some had bare strands... many had missing insulation or loose strands hanging out of the crimps.

The whole batch Burt and I installed over 2 weeks required correction prior to installation. This was VERY time consuming but after your experience I am glad we found it before installation.
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:19 PM
Eden Lights Eden Lights is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Scapes View Post
Found some focus DL13 brs bullets like this as well... they were assembled with plain blue butt crimps... no protection...some had bare strands... many had missing insulation or loose strands hanging out of the crimps.

The whole batch Burt and I installed over 2 weeks required correction prior to installation. This was VERY time consuming but after your experience I am glad we found it before installation.
While I might not use the right terms for the Lumiere stem, I have always called them a antiwicking camber. They may even have a trademark or patent on theirs, but I can't remember? I first saw this in 1998 when I was first getting started on a Designers drawings a speced procedure or feature of the fixture to be used by supplier or the electrician. You can also find more information in The Landscape Lighting Book somewhere, but it's been a few years since I read that so I am not sure. I need to reread that book any way since it's been so long.
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:22 PM
Eden Lights Eden Lights is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Scapes View Post
Found some focus DL13 brs bullets like this as well... they were assembled with plain blue butt crimps... no protection...some had bare strands... many had missing insulation or loose strands hanging out of the crimps.

The whole batch Burt and I installed over 2 weeks required correction prior to installation. This was VERY time consuming but after your experience I am glad we found it before installation.
This is inside epoxy on the 203, I forget what they call it, help me out?
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:28 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden Lights View Post
While I might not use the right terms for the Lumiere stem, I have always called them a antiwicking camber. They may even have a trademark or patent on theirs, but I can't remember? I first saw this in 1998 when I was first getting started on a Designers drawings a speced procedure or feature of the fixture to be used by supplier or the electrician. You can also find more information in The Landscape Lighting Book somewhere, but it's been a few years since I read that so I am not sure. I need to reread that book any way since it's been so long.
It might be part of their "anti-siphon" technology but frankly I dont get it! Having bare leads beside each other in the stem is a recipe for long term replacement. Sells a lot of fixtures I suppose.
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:43 PM
Eden Lights Eden Lights is offline
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I just looked it up, in the 203 it is called SPS-Siphon Protection System. You would need to disturb the epoxy or it would have to have a assemble defect for it to be a problem.

Check out page 74 or the water proofing discussion in the fixtures section of The Landscape lighting book for more information. Figure 6.5 shows how the electrician had to do ever fixture before they incorporated this into the 203, that was alot of extra work.
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:12 AM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden Lights View Post
I just looked it up, in the 203 it is called SPS-Siphon Protection System. You would need to disturb the epoxy or it would have to have a assemble defect for it to be a problem.

Check out page 74 or the water proofing discussion in the fixtures section of The Landscape lighting book for more information. Figure 6.5 shows how the electrician had to do ever fixture before they incorporated this into the 203, that was alot of extra work.
For those of you who use the 203... I ask you to take one, cut open or otherwise smash the stem and take a look. I have three here now that are all the same.... The wire leads go into the stem at the threaded base and about mid way into the stem the lead wires are both stripped bare of insulation for about 1/4". At that point they are not contained by anything...

The wires are free to move about the stem and possibly come into contact with each other causing a dead short.

I would really like to know if this situation has been fixed or changed... perhaps I got a bad batch over the course of that year. (2004 or 03 I believe)

Have a great day.
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James Solecki
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2007, 09:51 AM
Eden Lights Eden Lights is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Solecki - INTEGRA View Post
For those of you who use the 203... I ask you to take one, cut open or otherwise smash the stem and take a look. I have three here now that are all the same.... The wire leads go into the stem at the threaded base and about mid way into the stem the lead wires are both stripped bare of insulation for about 1/4". At that point they are not contained by anything...

The wires are free to move about the stem and possibly come into contact with each other causing a dead short.

I would really like to know if this situation has been fixed or changed... perhaps I got a bad batch over the course of that year. (2004 or 03 I believe)

Have a great day.
Your 203 stems are not full of a hardened sealer? or are you saying that the SPS is not inside the sealer on your fixtures? I think the QC at Lumiere is not always the best, but the design it one of the best.
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2007, 07:41 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden Lights View Post
Your 203 stems are not full of a hardened sealer? or are you saying that the SPS is not inside the sealer on your fixtures? I think the QC at Lumiere is not always the best, but the design it one of the best.
Nope, certainly they are not FULL of it.... as I recall, (this was a few years ago) there was a plug of the sealant near the end of the stem... but it was not full of the sealant.
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