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  #31  
Old 12-21-2007, 11:01 AM
Mike M Mike M is online now
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That's cool, but I am curious about average medium-sized installs that can be done with 12v. or 24v. Where is the break even point in price comparison between a 12v. and 24v. system?

At what point does it become a savings to use 24V? Can it be approximated by a benchmark of total feet of homeruns? Of course the wattages from bulbs will matter, but a formula could factor in these variables.
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  #32  
Old 12-21-2007, 11:06 AM
nate mullen nate mullen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Solecki - INTEGRA View Post
Now who on earth wants to get into the sourcing, stocking and tracking the use of 24v lamps? Think of the confusion and frustration in the marketplace on jobs that the original installing contractor looses touch with! Can you imagine the client, caretaker, or yard maintenance guy trying to figure out what is wrong when every replacement (12v) lamp they put in a fixture burns out?!?

Naw they won't move to a full 24V system... they will just throw more voltage, at thinner or longer cable runs until they get 12V at the lamp. What a dogs breakfast of wiring techniques and potential future failures that will be.

We should be pushing for industry standardization people, not looking towards 'new' and alternative directions that will muddy the industry and leave clients upset and systems dysfunctional in the future.

Just my .02 CDN.
I already have and sell this system and by the way GE makes the lamps. Are you still using 7.2 volt cordless drills. WE here in the USA are up to 28 volt cordless drills . As far as Industry standards go, should we adopt your method of voltage drop for a starter I am sure you would like that.........17 years ago I challenge the Voltage drop formula because it was wrong. It is my duty as a Manufacture and a Lighting Professional to also expose the inaccuracy, myths, ignorance statements. I chose and still choose to think outside the box....It is you that is fear full of change do you not want to teach your dogs new tricks?.......... Is the world still flat where you live. to a brighter future, Nate

Last edited by Michael J. Donovan; 12-21-2007 at 11:27 AM.
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  #33  
Old 12-21-2007, 11:11 AM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is online now
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I have to question that cost estimate of $5k to run line voltage to the end of a driveway! To power a 250w load you would not need anywhere near the infastructure that Nate quoted.

If the soils are co-operative they would simply pull a 10/2 NMWU in with a vibratory plow to 18" depth. If the soils are un-coperative then they would pull TEK armoured cable instead. We are talking hundreds not thousands. I have this done regularly by a variety of EC's here.
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  #34  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:03 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate mullen View Post
I already have and sell this system and by the way GE makes the lamps. Are you still using 7.2 volt cordless drills. WE here in the USA are up to 28 volt cordless drills . As far as Industry standards go, should we adopt your method of voltage drop for a starter I am sure you would like that.........17 years ago I challenge the Voltage drop formula because it was wrong. It is my duty as a Manufacture and a Lighting Professional to also expose the inaccuracy, myths, ignorance statements. I chose and still choose to think outside the box....It is you that is fear full of change do you not want to teach your dogs new tricks?.......... Is the world still flat where you live. to a brighter future, Nate
This post has been edited by M. Donovan. The original version was insulting and inflammatory to me personally. I am not sure why Nate Mullen would sink to such levels on a public forum.

My original response has been removed too. The gist of it was that Mr. Mullen should be ashamed of his remarks and that I no longer have the time or the interest to participate here.

To the true professionals out there doing great work for great people, I wish you all luck and prosperity and hope that we can cross paths in person in the near future. Adieu.

Merry Christmas.
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  #35  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:19 PM
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JoeyD JoeyD is offline
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James, Nate's comment was edited and bassicly said he understands why some get on your case. I saw it and I think they only changed one line. It was not any worse than than things you have said about Unique Lighting in this forum and in other places. You need to understand that Nate would not jump down someones throat if he did not feel provoked or attacked. Nate does not need me to stand up for him but I do know what he was and is upset about. You choose to call us out and then back away. You then bring out your loyal ns distributor to pin us on 1838 and then love to gloat about it. You cannot sit so high up then drop down to a low level only to claim you are still taking the high road. No body wants you to leave this forum, we know how much you have to offer here. But if you cant take the heat then you should not dish it out, especially to those who are only trying to improve the industry.


Bottom line is you have started atleast 3 threads trying to pin Unique on something. "Whats So Unique" if you really want to know, we dont allow people to make us look like we are trying to ruin the industry. We dont sit there and teach bad VD methods, and we dont always do things that are in your words "traditional". We want to push this industry and if we hurt some feelings along the way that I guess thats just something that is going to happen. So many people have tried to build there fences higher but they cant hold us in. We will continue to let that fire burn and we will continue to try and produce products and materials and techniques that are going to better this industry and make your lives easier.

Respectfully,
Joey D.
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  #36  
Old 12-21-2007, 01:07 PM
nate mullen nate mullen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Solecki - INTEGRA View Post
I have to question that cost estimate of $5k to run line voltage to the end of a driveway! To power a 250w load you would not need anywhere near the infastructure that Nate quoted.

If the soils are co-operative they would simply pull a 10/2 NMWU in with a vibratory plow to 18" depth. If the soils are un-coperative then they would pull TEK armoured cable instead. We are talking hundreds not thousands. I have this done regularly by a variety of EC's here.
James, Are you an Electrical contractor? I was. NEVER NEVER NEVER would you pull cable in with a plow............................at least not in the USA. Its closer to the 5K than 100's you state.
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  #37  
Old 12-21-2007, 01:26 PM
nate mullen nate mullen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Solecki - INTEGRA View Post
This post has been edited by M. Donovan. The original version was insulting and inflammatory to me personally. I am not sure why Nate Mullen would sink to such levels on a public forum.

My original response has been removed too. The gist of it was that Mr. Mullen should be ashamed of his remarks and that I no longer have the time or the interest to participate here.

To the true professionals out there doing great work for great people, I wish you all luck and prosperity and hope that we can cross paths in person in the near future. Adieu.

Merry Christmas.
James, It was not my intention for you to leave this forum. As a lighting professional you offer experience and expertise to all of those that participate here. Which is why when you state facts, or your opinion as facts, they have to be true. I have sat here for weeks reading some of your posts that are simply not true, undermine and insult me and my company. My original post is the one posted now as far as I can tell…..Its is always in the best interest of any profession to move forward, challenge and innovate. Anyway I look forward to meeting at the ALOP. To a brighter future, Nate Mullen
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  #38  
Old 12-21-2007, 01:54 PM
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Lite4 Lite4 is online now
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James,
The argument could also conversly be made that there is too much standardization nowdays in the low volt systems. Why do you think we have to fight homeowners who can run down to just about any hardware store and find parts to fiddle with their own systems instead of calling a lighting specialist. Things have been made very easy for them. I realize it also because it doesn't require any licenses or certifications to work on it but maybe it should. I think alot of these parts are available to them because of industry standardization to a degree.
I don't see the problem with different voltages. An electrician deals with many types of lights and voltages. 12v, 120v, 240v 480v and so on. Why would it be such a problem as lighting specialist to adapt to different technology and techniques for different situations, just as an electrician would.
In my humble opinion, the more sophisticated the systems become the more we are going to see the homeowners and tinkerers staying away from lighting and leaving it to the trained specialists.
I am fine with new technology. I am a smart enough guy to be able to track my clients and their hardware. I also don't have any problem keeping a variety of components available in my truck.
Sorry James, I am not harping on you man. Just my perspective of the issue.
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  #39  
Old 12-21-2007, 09:09 PM
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SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES is offline
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James, I am not a lighting professional by any means. I am about as green as you can to this industry, but that does not keep me from noticing someone with a personal riff when I see it. I do not understand your problem with a 24V system. it may be my ignorace to the technology, but my view is, there are plenty of products outhere on the industry that have a very limited application and this may very well be one of them, but there have to be uses for this product or Nate would not spend well earned money to put it into production. My view is, if you don't need it, don't buy it, if you don't think it will be a success and will be harmful to the industry, then that will be Nate that suffers the reprocussions.

Also, if you have a riff with someone here, i don't see a problem with confronting them, but if it gets personal enough, don't expect someone to sit idle by and just take it. If it gets bad enough, don't be surprised when LS yanks the thread.
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  #40  
Old 12-22-2007, 10:16 PM
irrig8r irrig8r is offline
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So, if these 24 V lamps are readily available, how and where are they used in other parts of the world? How long have they been in use and what kind of a track record do they have?

Things change.... new standards get accepted for one reason or another. My old '66 VW bug had a 6 volt system. I'm glad it's not the standard for cars.
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