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  #11  
Old 12-30-2007, 06:07 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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Call Nightscaping and ask their technical department to email you the specifications on those T-1000-SS transformers before you judge them any further.

They are not actually 1x1000w transformers, (that would not meet the code). They are in fact a comination of 4x250w transformers built into one enclosure. Open it up and you will see 4 sets of taps. They were THE transformer in their day and will continue to work in a well engineered system for decades to come. The system design of the units allows you to load them up to 100% of their rating (some would argue because they have been de-rated to 250w) I have found no problems with voltage drop issues at the taps. The H3Os are nicer to work with of course, but there is nothing wrong with those 10yr old T-1000-SS units either. I just comes down to engineering the system properly.
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2007, 06:14 PM
Mike M Mike M is offline
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Thanks, James. Let me clarify, the 1000 is like four separate 300's, pre-rated for 250 (maybe 240) watts each?
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2007, 06:19 PM
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Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post

Well both Billy and Pete, I agree. Newbie mistake, thinking those coils should be fine and wanting to please the customer so much. I did, however, refuse to use any preexisting wires or fixtures.

.

Is saving the client money pleasing him when you hand him the keys to his system and he goes to start it and the engine sputters ? Reusing equipment can be a great sales point but often times you will find it hinders the final project. Kinda like buying that ferrari minus the paint job. you know its out there but it aint much to look at.

James has a great point. It is useable as long as it funtions fine. You just need to cordinate the system and limit your runs and loads. Make sure the extra wire and labor needed to make it work is well worth the effort vs buying a new transformer. Also verify your intended control systems will work with the older unit.
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2007, 06:31 PM
pete scalia pete scalia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
Thanks, James. Let me clarify, the 1000 is like four separate 300's, pre-rated for 250 (maybe 240) watts each?
Mike this is garbage information you have received. Disregard it immediately. Forget about the load handling capabilities (ability to handle the load without tripping the secondary fuse which in this case is 4 X 25 amps). that's not what this is about here. It's about being able to deliver 12v to the fixtures in and economical fashion. And I'm guaranteeing you it's gonna cost a boat load using this transformer and like I've said will leave you in trouble when the custy wants to add more.
The voltage output on this 12v relic will be much less than satisfactory once you go beyond 300 watts of lights connected to it. Even worse If you've got long runs then forget it, you will suck the wind right out of the transformer and it will not even deliver you 11 volts from the taps at the transformer. Which means you will have much less when it gets to the fixtures. I am so sick and tired of reading misinformation and overblown claims to protect beloved idols here that it's to the point of redicule. Look Mike, if you want to listen to this trash info and acknowledge it then I am done trying to help you. When are you all going to wake up and combat this misinformation and drum it out of here once and for all?

Nate and Joey, where are you to straighten this mess out?
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  #15  
Old 12-30-2007, 06:44 PM
pete scalia pete scalia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete scalia View Post
Mike this is garbage information you have received. Disregard it immediately. Forget about the load handling capabilities (ability to handle the load without tripping the secondary fuse which in this case is 4 X 25 amps). that's not what this is about here. It's about being able to deliver 12v to the fixtures in and economical fashion. And I'm guaranteeing you it's gonna cost a boat load using this transformer and like I've said will leave you in trouble when the custy wants to add more.
The voltage output on this 12v relic will be much less than satisfactory once you go beyond 300 watts of lights connected to it. Even worse If you've got long runs then forget it, you will suck the wind right out of the transformer and it will not even deliver you 11 volts from the taps at the transformer. Which means you will have much less when it gets to the fixtures. I am so sick and tired of reading misinformation and overblown claims to protect beloved idols here that it's to the point of redicule. Look Mike, if you want to listen to this trash info and acknowledge it then I am done trying to help you. When are you all going to wake up and combat this misinformation and drum it out of here once and for all?

Nate and Joey, where are you to straighten this mess out?
Nate and Joey,
You said you have extensively tested this and other transformers under various load conditions. Tell us your findings with this 1000 watt 12V transformer in question? Do you even get 12V coming from the terminals when it's close to being fully loaded or is it more like 9-10V? And tell us what the voltage is even 30 ft away with 8 gauge cable when the trans is putting out 10V? Man I'm sick of this nonsense. Misinformation and poor half arsed advice threatens to put us all back into the ice ages for sure.

Last edited by Michael J. Donovan; 12-31-2007 at 10:59 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2007, 07:49 PM
Mike M Mike M is offline
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I don't care who is right about what. Math is nature's objective way of saying figure it out for yourself.

The evolution of the lighting industry has realized there is a point when it is more reasonable to have multiple taps than have multiple transformers in close proximity to lights.

For some, the math works to have a few strategically located transformers placed methodically around the property, for others, it is better business to have one transformer to drive their whole system.

In my market, every home built comes with a box with a cover, prewired and ready for an easy mount of a GFCI outlet with weather cover. And the lot sizes are not huge. I want one or two big mothers with multiple taps. Now, since EC's are so flippin busy and expensive, that's what might work for me, keeping their work fast and easy.

Right now, I need to deal with a system that was installed before mulitaps became so popular. In dealing with that system, I will try to make it work. If it doesn't, I have written in my contract the right to replace the transformers.

Now, as for James, maybe he could change his name on lawnsite and pretend he is from Oregon. But the arguments will continue. While some find these offensive, I like them. I am secretly amused and entertained, plus I find important information from all angles.

I only wish that Mike G was still here, so I could read the interactions between him and Pete.
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2007, 08:29 PM
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JoeyD JoeyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete scalia View Post
Nate and Joey,
You said you have extensively tested this and other transformers under various load conditions. Tell us your findings with this 1000 watt 12V transformer in question? Do you even get 12V coming from the terminals when it's close to being fully loaded or is it more like 9-10V? You would barely get 11v to the 12v tap with NO LOAD!And tell us what the voltage is even 30 ft away with 8 gauge cable when the trans is putting out 10V? With say 1 35w lamp at 30ft you would probably have about 9.5v if you started with 10v. Man I'm sick of this nonsense. Misinformation and poor half arsed advice threatens to put us all back into the ice ages for sure. Why can't one even be a man of his word and stay away? That didn't last long did it? Can't even be truthful about that. Gimme a break.
Answered in red above. I do not have the exact results of this particular TF but we did use to have one of these hanging on the wall to show the VD just from wall to TF to secondary Tap with and without load. They always were one of the worst performers. Nate probably remembers more.
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2007, 08:50 PM
Mike M Mike M is offline
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I got 11.3 at a fixture on the site. How, I'm not sure, many variables. I think I can make this work, it will just take some hands on messing around and using my head. If I'm wrong, I'll eat them.

I have to admit, these boxes are still working pretty good.

Oh yeah, real freaky, I opened one of the transformers and a boatload of cockroaches ran out. You gotta love the south. Cockroach crap was caked in there like bat guano.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2007, 08:53 PM
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JoeyD JoeyD is offline
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If you get anywhere close to 12v at your tap you should be able to get atleast one or 2 lights 11-11.5v as long as they are fairly close to the unit. In a perfect world you would just get another unit but in this situation you are doing what you have to do and if you can make it work then thats great.
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  #20  
Old 12-30-2007, 09:23 PM
Mike M Mike M is offline
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We'll see Joe. I like what you said about a perfect world. When I get better, like tomorrow, I will be confident enough to insist on my own systems, start to finish. Maybe salvage stuff here and there, but by my own choice and control of the situation.

The only real prob with those 12 V trans was that I assumed the line voltage to them was still in tact. I was confident I could power fixtures with no less than 10.7 or so with the close proximity, especially if I upgraded runs to 10 gauge from 12.

The trans I tested was one inside the basement, wired and operational. The others I was told were controled by switch, and I assumed was off.
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