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  #11  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:22 AM
PHS PHS is offline
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Quote:
If you need both products for sub and surface control you can only mix them if your'e using a spray tank and doing all hand spraying
I was about ready to say "of course you need a spray tank, it's a liquid material". I checked the FMC website first just to see if I wasn't missing something...and sure enough, I didn't realize there was a granular formulation also . Most of my business is tree/shrub IPM so from my perspective I figured it has some legitimate turf uses but for ornamentals it just looks like a "shotgun material" for jokers that can't identify their pests
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:37 AM
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lawn king lawn king is online now
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We used it last season and will continue to use it, great product!
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:44 AM
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turf hokie turf hokie is offline
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We used it as well, great results and the price point was actually better than merit alone. That is why we started using it.
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  #14  
Old 01-13-2008, 01:09 PM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHS View Post
it just looks like a "shotgun material" for jokers that can't identify their pests
You nailed it, PHS !
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2008, 02:01 PM
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Victor Victor is offline
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OK.. I'll bite

This is the microwave generation Marcos. It's very difficult to find a customer who will tolerate having part, if not a large portion of their lawns destroyed by lawn-damaging insects. If part, or a large portion of their lawn is wiped out by pests, it won't go over well when you give them a price to repair it either. If the customer does agree to pay you to repair their lawns, they more than likely won't properly take care of the seed to make sure it comes in as planned. If they won't water their lawns once, or twice a week, what makes you think they'll be willing to make sure the grass seed doesn't dry out? That's even more work than normal watering practices. Not to mention the negative effect their lawn will have on your reputation for offering a good program. Their neighbors WILL NOTICE the damage and will remember that damage the next time you solicit their business.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, telling that customer that you'll rescue their lawn from the pests and repair it this year, and make sure their lawn is protected against the same pests the next year won't cut it. You stand a great chance of losing them as a customer. In their minds, they hired you to make sure the damage didn't happen in the first place.

Even an applicator with minimal experience can tell when a problem arises with a healthy, green lawn that's receiving the proper amount of water. Most of my customers don't water their lawns however. If the lawn is healthy, it's not hard to tell from a distance that something is wrong with the lawn. When customers don't water their lawns through the hot, dry Summers we have around here and their lawn goes dormant, the only way you'll be able to catch a pest population before it has a chance to destroy any appreciable percentage of your customer's lawns, is if you check every one of your customer's lawns frequently enough, that it would be impossible for a pest population to build to damaging levels. By checking their lawn, I'm talking about getting out of the truck and putting your nose down in the turf. When conditions are right for pests, we both know how quickly this can happen.

I don't know about you, but I don't have the time go out to each of my customer's lawns frequently enough in the Summer, that I'd be able to definitely catch a pest population before it could build to harmful levels.

I do check my lawns in between rounds, but I can't check all of them, between every round. In an ideal world I could and would, but this isn't an ideal world. If all of my customers would follow my instructions (such as proper mowing and watering of their lawns) to a T, then IPM would be possible for me. Since IPM is a package deal though and they won't hold up their side of the package, I'm left having to resort to other tactics, such as using Allectus to make sure there are no problems with their lawns in the first place.
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Last edited by Victor; 01-13-2008 at 02:09 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-13-2008, 04:30 PM
grassguy_ grassguy_ is offline
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Well said VIC!
Turf Hokie, I found the same thing, I was paying abit more for the Merit than Allectus, so to me when i know the lawns that traditionally have chinch and sod webworm late summer and the homeowner has decided to purchase grub control,.......well .......no brainer! I'm like you Vic, i'll try to make it back to many lawns between treatments but its unrealistic to think you'll get to everyone. IPM can not be realistic without some expectation of using a preventative approach when historical data warrants doing so. Not when the homeowner is expecting you to deliver the best lawn.
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2008, 04:41 PM
PHS PHS is offline
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Vic,

Lawn insect pests aren't my strong suit so this is a legitimate question (not a "trying-to-set-you-up" question), what is the reason for mixing the two together? Are you using it when there is a pest present and it's a curative/preventative treatment or something like that? Or a preventative treatment and need two different materials to prevent the common pests...something like that?
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:08 PM
PSUTURFGEEK PSUTURFGEEK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHS View Post
I was about ready to say "of course you need a spray tank, it's a liquid material". I checked the FMC website first just to see if I wasn't missing something...and sure enough, I didn't realize there was a granular formulation also . Most of my business is tree/shrub IPM so from my perspective I figured it has some legitimate turf uses but for ornamentals it just looks like a "shotgun material" for jokers that can't identify their pests
Thats fine,granular is excellent in most cases due to ride on units, I mentioned having to hand spray only because the original quote was "if I need both I'll just mix them, now we all know from Turf 101 you shouldn't be mixing two different products in one granular hopper, your'e rates will be hillarious.
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:15 PM
PSUTURFGEEK PSUTURFGEEK is offline
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pests

As far as the Jokers go, I don't know about down in loosiana but in the other states we do just fine with Identifying our pests and using common sense as far as product preference and cost. I think one of the biggest problems I have with this site is there isn't much seperation in regions and zones, there should be different topics and areas for people in different parts of the country otherwise all you see is blanket statements abut what works 2000 miles from where you live.
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:30 PM
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Victor Victor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHS View Post
Vic,

Lawn insect pests aren't my strong suit so this is a legitimate question (not a "trying-to-set-you-up" question), what is the reason for mixing the two together? Are you using it when there is a pest present and it's a curative/preventative treatment or something like that? Or a preventative treatment and need two different materials to prevent the common pests...something like that?
Hi PHS

That's a good question. As far as the Allectus combo product I use goes, I've found that by applying it around late May, to early June, it has enough residual effect to prevent problems with either subsurface, or surface-feeding lawn pests all year. When I apply it at that time of the year, it's in a preventative role.

Since there are tons of problems with chinches, billbugs and grubs around here, I've found that any well-kept lawn left unprotected from these pests is very susceptible to attack. Too many times, I've seen a cheap customer skip insect protection, only to have their lawn devastated by these pests.

If these customers who refuse insect protection would water their lawns properly, they would have help from natural sources, like Beauvaria Fungus. In a lot of instances, a healthy lawn can have a sizable population of lawn-damaging insects in it and not show any damage. If you already knew this, I apologize. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence here.

When I ask customers if they want insect protection, or not, I let them know that I won't be responsible for any damage they incur if they opt not to pay for it. On average, 75%, to 85% of my customers opt to receive my insect protection. I sleep well at night, knowing that their lawns are well protected as a result.

Am I proud of putting that much pesticide down? No. Would I rather let Big-Eyed bug populations increase to a size on my customer's lawns that are attacked to control some of these pests? Yes, but I can't do that. Do I think with my limited options, applying Allectus is the best thing for me to do to accomplish my goal of giving my customers great looking lawns even though they don't properly maintain them? Yes.
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Last edited by Victor; 01-13-2008 at 06:34 PM.
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