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  #11  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:02 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitey4 View Post
I'm looking to replace garanteed analysis synthetics with garanteed analysis organics.
It is important to keep in mind that simply replacing chem ferts with organics is only going to get you half the way there. The goal is to reduce your overall inputs by building a sustainable system and properly managing that system.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:26 AM
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Tom Jaszewski Tom Jaszewski is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
It is important to keep in mind that simply replacing chem ferts with organics is only going to get you half the way there. The goal is to reduce your overall inputs by building a sustainable system and properly managing that system.
Very esoteric response...but....Sustainable turf? I'm not sure any monoculture is sustainable without continued high inputs....I'm here to help and build businesses using community heathy practices. But lets see the product we maintain for what it is....a monoculture requiring higher inputs whether organic, sustainable or conventional. Our advantage is earth and community friendly....
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:28 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitey4 View Post
I probably have to get over this excrement phobia...LOL. I know it's sterilized, and safe.... but too many pidgeons have used my head as a repostitory. I'll work on that! Yeah, the Vigliotti compost has given me good results as a top dressing and flower garden organic amendment, although I mostly use my own compost for my property and especially in my vegtable garden.

Is your fert available at retail quanitities? I'd like to try some in my annual beds to get a feel for how it works and monitor results.

PS: Despite my phobias, I have no problem with earthworm castings... I love that stuff. In the soil, I mean.
You really don't want sterilized compost as it will not contain active benefitial microbes. Properly composted manures have the active benefitials without the pathenogens.

The granular ferts and worm castings we offer have minimum orders of 1 pallet. Please contact me off list for more info.

And always wear a hardhat when pidgeons are around.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2008, 12:11 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Jaszewski View Post
Very esoteric response...but....Sustainable turf? I'm not sure any monoculture is sustainable without continued high inputs....I'm here to help and build businesses using community heathy practices. But lets see the product we maintain for what it is....a monoculture requiring higher inputs whether organic, sustainable or conventional. Our advantage is earth and community friendly....
Absolutely agreed. This is a point I have brought up often in various forums on this site.

Turf is not sustainable and IMHO should be eliminated in the majority of residential and commercial landscapes. ::ducks and runs::

That being said, I do feel turf can be managed in ways that will reduce inputs into the system. So yes, turf (traditional) in most all cases is not sustainable in the strict sense of the word, however by using sustainable practices (ex. organics), it becomes more "sustainable" than it was under a conventionally managed approach.
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2008, 01:30 PM
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Tom Jaszewski Tom Jaszewski is offline
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Absolutely agreed. This is a point I have brought up often in various forums on this site.

Turf is not sustainable and IMHO should be eliminated in the majority of residential and commercial landscapes. ::ducks and runs::

That being said, I do feel turf can be managed in ways that will reduce inputs into the system. So yes, turf (traditional) in most all cases is not sustainable in the strict sense of the word, however by using sustainable practices (ex. organics), it becomes more "sustainable" than it was under a conventionally managed approach.
Great we have concensous...now how about a thread on using tea compost and sustainable fertilizer blends based on simple testing? Co-authors?
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2008, 01:43 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Jaszewski View Post
Great we have concensous...now how about a thread on using tea compost and sustainable fertilizer blends based on simple testing? Co-authors?
Sounds good to me. We are all here to learn and share knowledge, what better way than to discuss various methods and approaches for solving common problems and developing cost effective management strategies that are accessible to everyone.
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  #17  
Old 02-04-2008, 12:35 AM
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Whitey4 Whitey4 is offline
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So, am I correct in assuming that an easing into organic fertilizers is not an option? It's all or nothing? I have a problem with that, if in fact that is the consensus. I use IPM, I top dress with organic compost, but I am both too ignorant to go 100% organic, nor am I confident I want to, at least just yet until I learn MUCH, much more about it.

This is how I make my living. I know how to use synthetics responsibly and safely and get great results. Unlike a lot of guys, I REFUSE to apply controls to overwintered grubs. All it does is kill beneficials and make grubs more pesticide tolerant, not to mention that in the spring with the rainfall it just leaches into the ground water anyway.

I'm no where near ready to go to CGM for my pre m's yet either, not until I do some experiments of my own, and check results. I'm not arguing synthetics vs. organics, but I HATE this all or nothing philosophy. It is self defeating.

Is there no way to matriculate into organics, while not risking my ability to make a living with good results? I am VERY mindful of the environment, and being in THE hot spot in the USA for restrictions due to high nitrate levels in wells etc, if the organic movement is to gain speed, something other than this all or nothing approach has to be graduated, or it won't be accepted, ever, by the synthetics guys IMO.
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2008, 12:42 AM
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Tom Jaszewski Tom Jaszewski is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitey4 View Post
So, am I correct in assuming that an easing into organic fertilizers is not an option? It's all or nothing? I have a problem with that, if in fact that is the consensus. I use IPM, I top dress with organic compost, but I am both too ignorant to go 100% organic, nor am I confident I want to, at least just yet until I learn MUCH, much more about it.

This is how I make my living. I know how to use synthetics responsibly and safely and get great results. Unlike a lot of guys, I REFUSE to apply controls to overwintered grubs. All it does is kill beneficials and make grubs more pesticide tolerant, not to mention that in the spring with the rainfall it just leaches into the ground water anyway.

I'm no where near ready to go to CGM for my pre m's yet either, not until I do some experiments of my own, and check results. I'm not arguing synthetics vs. organics, but I HATE this all or nothing philosophy. It is self defeating.

Is there no way to matriculate into organics, while not risking my ability to make a living with good results? I am VERY mindful of the environment, and being in THE hot spot in the USA for restrictions due to high nitrate levels in wells etc, if the organic movement is to gain speed, something other than this all or nothing approach has to be graduated, or it won't be accepted, ever, by the synthetics guys IMO.
Sounds to me like you're doing the right things...thats what counts. Chemical fertilizers can be used and be non toxic, safe and good for the community. Definitely an opportunity to grow more nutritious foods with chemical fertilizers.....surprised? I don't think using Ca Nitrate in a controlled situation is any better or worse than using feather meal from one of the biggest polluters of watersheds in the US (chicken farms)
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  #19  
Old 02-04-2008, 02:07 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitey4 View Post
So, am I correct in assuming that an easing into organic fertilizers is not an option? It's all or nothing? I have a problem with that, if in fact that is the consensus.
I'm not sure where you got that impression, but from what I have seen, most people who contribute to this forum support using bridge programs, myself included.
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2008, 06:49 AM
PHS PHS is offline
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Turf is not sustainable and IMHO should be eliminated in the majority of residential and commercial landscapes. ::ducks and runs::
In the drier parts of CA and the southwest in general that makes sense where turf won't grow on it's own except for a short part of the year. Down here and in other areas of the country where it rains year around, lawn space for most people is about the only way you can reasonably maintain larger areas without having a full scale jungle on your hands. So it's often more of a necessity rather than just simply a luxury. I still maintain them in the least impactful way I can but I think that's why there's more interest in lawns in other regions than there is in CA.

Last edited by PHS; 02-04-2008 at 06:54 AM.
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