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  #11  
Old 11-27-2001, 09:15 PM
keifer keifer is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: huntsville alabama
Posts: 320
ric

I is a redneck so it takes a lot of pouring to get any thing in my head. yoursite is great i printed every page of it for reference and you answered my ? its just would have been better for me in chart form but like i said that might not be possible thanks. ps. wish i lived in fla.
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2001, 09:04 AM
tremor tremor is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stratford, CT
Posts: 1,476
Ric,

Nice website. Very good layout.
Since I work for a fertilizer company, I have a little constructive criticizm.

Roots take only what they need. = Plants can be overstimulated with N and sometimes are.

N is cheapest ingredient. No. As an indredient,N is the most expensive ingredient in a bag of commercial fertilizer. We put more in because plants require more. Turf and most plants & trees grown for foliage, use "the big three" macro-elemets (N,P,&K) in a 4-1-2 ratio. So common turf/shade tree blends should be in approximately that ratio depending on local soil needs. Examples: 4-1-2 = 8-1-4 = 16-4-8 = 20-5-10 = 24-5-11 etc, The only difference between any of these is the filler content.
N is commonly had through the use of urea. Urea is made with HUGE quantities of Natural Gas so the price fluctuates with the cost of energy. Since crude is cheap right now, so is natural gas, and so is urea. Last year at this time, Urea costs were heading up to some all time highs. At the moment let's assume the following:

46-0-0 urea 50lb = $8.00 or $.35 per lb N
0-0-62 Kcl 50lb = $6.50 or $.21 per lb K
(prices are approximate, bagged, in large volume for example only. Commodity prices differ significantly)

K is much cheaper when viewing kcl. Sulphate of Potash is more money, but used under summer conditions when lower salt ingredients are desirable. However Urea wouldn't be used then either. More costly slower release forms of N would have a similar impact on cost to produce a blend, so it's about a wash.

I do agree with you with respect to equal N-K ratio fert's. When turf is fully established and N can be ramped back down a bit, it makes good sense to transition a maint. program in this direction. Equal N-K will increase wear, drought, and disease tolerance in both warm & cool season turf.
All turf can get a little raggy from time to time. When that happens, and the canopy has to be regrown, a higher N fert is called for again. Commonly in the spring to aid winter recovery (in the north) or following any traffic,drought, disease, or surface feeding insect event that has caused damage to the leaf canopy. When clippings are being universally removed from all parts of the turf-stand and you've got that carpet look going again, it's back to equal N-K to help hold it that way.
Density goals play a critical roll in determining how much total N should be applied per season. Bluegrass leaf blades will be present in direct corellation to applied N. Hungry Bluegrass plants will have 2-3 blades green, with the oldest allways fading down to yellow, then brown. Well fed Bluegrass can have as many as 5-6 leaves present with only the oldest leaf fading down. The oldest leaf is the one that is lowest down on the sheath. I've got customers that get by with as little as 2.5-3lbs of N per season. Their lawns are fair-OK at best. (IN THE METRO NY AREA) The turf at Yankee Stadium on the other hand gets hit with 7lbs N+ per season. But thats what is needed to reach the canopy density goal. It's up to the turf manager. High expectations = high usage. For cool season residential lawns around here I like 5 fert apps for 4-5 lbs N and at least 3 lbs of K. More K as a pre-stress conditoner. P can go down at 0-1 lb per season around here on established turf. How you dice that up and deliver it to lawns is why good thought should go into your program.

You didn't mention much about the roll of P. P helps seed coats break, which aids in the establishment of new lawns from seed.(weeds too, so watch how much) Immature plants of all kinds benefit from P applications as the root system utilizes P to establish itself.
P doesn't leach, and can reach toxic levels when overdone. (rarely)

I'm not bashing the site though. I think it's great. I hope it helps make your business money. If nothing else, your customers should percieve you as being very credible with this sort of commitment to what you do. I'm impressed.
Hope the comments help.

Steve
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2001, 03:22 PM
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Sammy Sammy is offline
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Location: Southern-Lower-Michigan
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Keifer, See if this is what you are looking for. http://aggieturf.tamu.edu/tools.html
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2001, 09:33 PM
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Ric Ric is offline
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First of all I would like to thank every one who has respond to this post. I have received feed back from PM, e-mail and website contact. Everyone has been kind and no I can spelllll. At least you all know I wrote this by the poor grammar and spelling. As many of you have stated the poor grammar takes away from its credibility. Most of the information comes from my class notes. I have been going to one or another college or voc-Tec for the last 7 years. I hope to add more information. However I have spent a lot of time writing and rewriting this. My website is protected by copyright therefore no one may publish this in part or whole unless they have my written permission. Permission should be very easy to get. Just ask. As of 6:00 PM 11/28/01 262 members have read this post my site meter has recorded 136 hits from lawn site.

Second I would like to answer the question. “Does your website bring in business?” No. However it does help in closing sale on new customers. Also it might help with word of mouth. But direct business from the website has not occurred. My competitors love this site because it educates them. I am telling them everything they know not everything I know. I wrote this website for homeowners in my area. We have many retirees who start out trying to take care of their yard. Most are from the north and our vegetation is much different. When they have problems, who better to call than the guy who wrote the book.

Third I would like to address Steve’s Post. Steve has posted one to my three posts. However he has given 100 times more information. Steve can also spell. It really does my heart good that Steve found so few errors. May be you are being kind Steve?
Quote:
" Roots take only what they need. == Plants can be over stimulated with N and sometimes are."
Yes I agree in varying degrees. After over stimulation decline occurs when N-P-K Macro, Micro are no longer over stimulated. This is offended seen in nursery stock that has been force grown. We plant this stock and see an immediate decline and think it is transplant stress. When if fact is lack of fertilizer. These plants must be weaned off of the over stimulated fertilization program. All of the elements can be toxic to our plants when they exist in excess. Fe is another big one for toxic over stimulation. Fe is a microelement that we all use or over use. Toxic Fe can be a real problem. However in a normal fertilization programs Plant only up take what they need

Quote:
" You didn't mention much about the roll of P"
” P Is Important in root development, Flowering, Fruiting and Germination …The need for high P is new sod, sod plugs gardenias and bird of paradise. Yes I could of added a little more however this was written for homeowners. We do not start grass from seed here in the wet sand desert.

Quote:
"P doesn't leach, and can reach toxic levels when overdone. (Rarely)"
Steve Jacksonville Fla. Area has a real problem with P. Since it is at the other end of the state from me I don’t study the problem. But P is so high that it leaches in to ground water.

Last but not least N, Steve you covered that very well and I would agree with 100% except the price issue. You have to understand that I was writing this for homeowners who buy 32-2-3 or 29-3-4 from manufactures who sell through Discount Stores at high prices on name only. Names will remain at the store but some of these guys don’t even make the product or bag it. Just sell it. 30lb for $12.00 to 18.00 a bag. Now I know that Lesco uses full on spec elements in their products and it is as clean a product as any on the market, if not cleaner. But plants can’t tell the difference between on spec and off spec elements. You can’t use Lesco’s retail prices to compare the price of N. Most of the urea being prilled today is done so outside this country. Russia with its large supply of natural gas is quickly becoming the urea supplier of the world. And they are selling it cheap. To use Lesco’s urea price would be like me saying Lesco’s SCU is only 80% effective. 20% is not available to the plant for over two years. You and I know this is a true statement. What I have not said is 20% of all SCU are unavailable to the plant for over two years.

Steve I am not bashing you either. I am just stirring the pot to get some more posts that might inform and educate all of us. Call me an idiot if you have to, to get out some more posters, Pick my website apart etc. I am thick skinned (and headed). The end justifies the means.
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