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  #11  
Old 03-27-2008, 10:44 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Howard County MD
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I think your instincts are right, if you have to go after a problem with a certain tool, do it. Just begin to put step into place to go after the root cause (pun intended), raise soil fertility, seed often.

If you have to kill off some of the biology to get things headed in the right direction do it. But come back and apply a light top dress of vermicompost or other compost, spray with compost teas to get the biology back quicker

begin to restore the SOM and the other will come along
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  #12  
Old 03-27-2008, 10:54 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Location: District 9 CA
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Ditto to what Bill said.

Weed pressures external to your site is always going to be a problem. This is something we all must deal with in densely developed areas and is sometimes out of our control. Best we can do in these cases is to discourage weed establishment by maintaining a system that is not conducive to weed growth. You have to accept you will never be 100% successful in this endeavour. Each site you maintain will be different and may take different methodologies to achieve your goal. Don't be afraid to think out of the box, or try to force your landscapes into a one-size-fits-all box.

My suggestion in the case of your parents would be to approach the neighbor to see if you can convince them to let you "experiment" on their lawn, or perhaps even let you maintain it.
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  #13  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:21 AM
Newby08 Newby08 is offline
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yeah, most nieghborhoods in the area have covenants that keep tight reigns on poeple keeping up with their lawns, this nieghborhood unfortuanately is older and bascially does not have any convenants. He possibly will let me do that, but I'm sure there will be many many other customers with the same issue, weed lawns next to their turf lawn, will a healthy, thick stand of turf keep up with the issues of all those thousands if not millions of weed seeds druling over the idea of ruining a good lookin lawn right next door?
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  #14  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:33 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newby08 View Post
thick stand of turf keep up with the issues of all those thousands if not millions of weed seeds druling over the idea of ruining a good lookin lawn right next door?
It will help but it is unlikely you will achieve complete control. In cases like these, I try to establish which weeds represent the biggest problem (eg. dispersal mechanisms) and then try to reduce the effectiveness of those mechanisms.
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  #15  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:56 AM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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I also back up what BIll said. If you need to apply any chemicals, follow it up with an app to add more soil biology.
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  #16  
Old 03-27-2008, 02:22 PM
Newby08 Newby08 is offline
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so your saying that if I use a syn pre-m then follow up with either a compost or AACT? will an organic fert be enough if added together with the pre-m?

otherwise it would seem that the cost will end up being the same
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  #17  
Old 03-27-2008, 03:37 PM
Organic a go go Organic a go go is offline
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Newby my own lawn has been organic for 7 consecutive seasons now and thats longer than I've been in business for myself so thats my best point of reference. I have neighbors on both sides that put major weed pressure on my lawn yet I get very very little germination. Genreally speaking I can pull what weeds I do get in less time than it'd take me to go to Lowes and buy something to spray on them. I rarely even trouble myself to get out the Burnout. A few twists of the Weed Hound every year and Im done.

Obviously 7 years is a long time to build a thick turf but even customers I've had for the last three years don't get a lot of weed germination in their yard.
But preM of any kind should become redundant fairly soon if you're mowing high and re-seeding.


And don't be afraid to charge accordingly for those services. One big lesson I've had to learn is not to compete with the traditional LCO's in terms of price structure. Im not insanely more expensive but this costs what it cost. Organic food isn't competitive with non-organic but it appeals to a customer who feels like it adds value. Same deal here. When I've tried to straddle that line and deliver my goods and services based on someone else's price structure it hasn't worked for me or my customers.
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  #18  
Old 03-27-2008, 04:13 PM
Newby08 Newby08 is offline
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thats more what I needed to here, I take it that you have Fescue? or some other cool season grass since you said you have to reseed. We have mainly bermuda, and tall fescue in shadier areas. Now as everyone knows, bermudagrass will choke out all other grasses and weeds but it has to be healthy enough. What I am needing to know is that if I do the organics for a year or two, with syn pre-m, will it be well enough you think that the lawn will be healthy enough that there wont be a need for pre-ms? or did i hear that wrong?
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  #19  
Old 03-27-2008, 04:26 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newby08 View Post
so your saying that if I use a syn pre-m then follow up with either a compost or AACT? will an organic fert be enough if added together with the pre-m?

otherwise it would seem that the cost will end up being the same
All I was saying is if you put down pre-em early spring, come back mid-spring with a tea app or similiar.

It would be much easier for me to throw the Cavalcade out the window if we mowed lawns. Too many mowing companies in my area, and none seem to be able to mow above 2 inches and edge correctly.
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  #20  
Old 03-27-2008, 05:17 PM
Organic a go go Organic a go go is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newby08 View Post
What I am needing to know is that if I do the organics for a year or two, with syn pre-m, will it be well enough you think that the lawn will be healthy enough that there wont be a need for pre-ms? or did i hear that wrong?

That just seems like a judgment call you have to make with every customer based on their lawns and level of expectations. One thing about going organic is that its hard to have a pre-packaged service for every customer. But I think that actually creates opportunity for upsell.

I don't use any sort of synthetic pre M ( not a judgment just works best for my situation I think) and I only infrequently use CGM. When I bid customers I make it VERY CLEAR that there will likely be some weeds which we'll deal with when we come but Im looking to "weed out" ; ) customers who are going to freak completely out if they have a weed growing in their yard before I can get there to pull it. But that said except for a couple of accounts that were in a LOT of trouble when I got them my yards compare very well with traditional LCO's. As good or better in most of cases.
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