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  #11  
Old 06-21-2008, 01:15 PM
Dandylyin Slayer's Avatar
Dandylyin Slayer Dandylyin Slayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalKing View Post
FYI: To you Northern market guys...it takes one hell of alot more chemical to maintain warm season turf! Much longer growing season, tons of disease & specialized insect & weed problems. The cost associated with getting far superior results than our competitors has been a two edged sword, on the one hand customer retention & growth from referrals has been phenominal. On the other hand, we are making less profit. Traditionally, chemical lawn care has commanded a 40-50% margin - seeing that drop closer to 25% now.
I guess one cannot expect to have your cake & eat it to - but damn this sucks!
Chemicalking this is such a true statement !! Warm season turf is much more costly in our area to maintain . Reading how the northern guys can operate their programs seems so different to me.
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2008, 05:06 PM
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Also, nobody had anything to say about my origional inquiry on this thread pertaining to increased nitrogen efficiency via urease inhibitors/dicyandiamide.

Before anybody says no scientific evidence, see this link:

http://www.agrotain.com/turf/english...=18ds#uflorida

Is there anybody out there with personal experiences relating to NPK reduction via methods that reduce leaching & ammonia volitilization?

Thanks Everyone!
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2008, 03:13 PM
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Turfdoctor1 Turfdoctor1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalKing View Post
I have a powerpoint presentation from the University of Arkansas (2005) that concludes significant NPK effeciency increases. Have you seen this more recent research?

chemicalking,

huh. that is interesting. i don't believe that this was from the turfgrass research, not to say that it isn't relevant, just to say that I was not working on that those trials. And, if it was within the turfgrass research area in 2005, i would have known about it. who was the author?
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2008, 04:52 PM
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Roger Bowman was the investigator. Not sure who else was involved. The research is specific to treated & untreated plots of warm season turfgrass.
It seems pretty conclusive on the reduction in leachate of n-p & K...
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalKing View Post
In our north texas region, we have seen some minor benefits to humates applied to weak, shady disease prone St Augustine - where high N is not an option from a disease management perspective. It is widely used in the south, as an additive to reduce leaf burn potential of liquid fertilizers with a high salt index, such as uan & urea (this I have seen work). However, I am with you on the general concensus that it is of limited value. I just wondered if there is any validity to the manufacturers claims of a reduction in NPK usage.

Primarily, I am asking for feedback from anybody that has found a cost effective approach to reducing their rates? With fert prices soaring, it makes sense to look for non traditional alternatives...
i recall reading somewhere that it made herbicides work better, at lower rates, any input?
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  #16  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:29 AM
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Up here the biggest improvements I have seen are on lawns,that have been top dresser and seeded with the correct seed at appropriate rates .Water retension and CEC.But most people dont have equipment or room for amendment storage .thin lawns with poor top soil scorch and and have all kinds of problems .But if basic IPM is not a priority ,there is not much a guy can do.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalKing View Post
Roger Bowman was the investigator. Not sure who else was involved. The research is specific to treated & untreated plots of warm season turfgrass.
It seems pretty conclusive on the reduction in leachate of n-p & K...

any way you could email me that data? i know roger, worked with roger, and i don't remember that data. i would be interested to see the whole study. When i mentioned above that the studies we had done returned no differences, these are the exact studies i was talking about.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2008, 11:04 AM
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Unfortunately, the files are much too large to e-mail & the attachment file types allowed here are limited. But here is a compressed excel sheet with much of the data, in addition to the screen shots from the power point that I posted here earlier. The full research is available from either UA or I got it thru my sales rep at Helena Chemical.
Attached Files
File Type: zip University of Arkansas.zip (9.6 KB, 5 views)
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humble1 View Post
i recall reading somewhere that it made herbicides work better, at lower rates, any input?
Of all the data I have reviewed on humates, there are no claims of any herbicide enhanced efficacy - surfactants/adjutant/sticker your best bet here. Maybe buffering agents, depending on the ph of your water...

The idea is that it is a known fact that a substantial amount of your fertilizer applied to turf is lost via leaching & ammonia folitilization. If you can reduce that loss, then you can reduce your usage equally - with no difference in response.
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2008, 11:56 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Humates, Humic acid, fulvic acid (carbon compounds) are food for the soil microbes. These guys can mine nutrients that may not be plant avialable, if you are able to get nutrient cycling going in the soil you can indeed reduce fertilizer inputs. The no Till farmers (closed system) are getting great results, turf is much the same in this instance as it is also a closed system

Here is part of an explanation from the site http://www.humate.info/ . the info is from HumaTech Inc. so it may be slanted towards their product but the basics are pretty good.

HUMIC SUBSTANCES AND THEIR INFLUENCE ON SOIL FERTILITY

Humic substances are a good source of energy for beneficial soil organisms. Humic substances and non humic (organic) compounds provide the energy and many of the mineral requirements for soil microorganisms and soil animals. Beneficial soil organisms lack the photosynthetic apparatus to capture energy from the sun thus must survive on residual carbon containing substances on or in the soil. Energy stored within the carbon bonds functions to provide energy for various metabolic reactions within these organisms. Beneficial soil organisms (algae, yeasts, bacteria, fungi nematodes, mycorrhizae, and small animals) perform many beneficial functions which influence soil fertility and plant health. For example the bacteria release organic acids which aid in the solubilization of mineral elements bound in soil. Bacteria also release complex polysaccharides (sugar based compounds) that help create soil crumbs (aggregates). Soil crumbs give soil a desirable structure.
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