$ of fertilizer has me reconsidering next year

[ted putnam]

Originally Posted by DeepGreenLawn

I am personally working on my product... compost. The great thing is I plan on being paid to take the stuff to make it, then in about a month or two get paid for having the same people take it away. Money at the beginning and the end. My cost just dropped a good 80%? Was paying about 2.50 (give or take) and now am getting paid a lot more than that. That actually is a negative percentage isn't it?

One other negative besides the percentage...The time involved in broadcasting that back out on the lawns and or the crew you'll have to hire and pay to make it time efficient. I realize it is good for the lawn and good for the environment but we are also in business to make money. To me anyway...it's kinda like Rodney's comment about showing up with 800 pounds of cornmeal and a PG. Labor intensive...

[greendoctor]

Originally Posted by ted putnam

One other negative besides the percentage...The time involved in broadcasting that back out on the lawns and or the crew you'll have to hire and pay to make it time efficient. I realize it is good for the lawn and good for the environment but we are also in business to make money. To me anyway...it's kinda like Rodney's comment about showing up with 800 pounds of cornmeal and a PG. Labor intensive...

Its very easy for the Green Nazis to sanctimoniously dictate to us. I am pretty sure most of them do not even have lawns or $40,000 of landscaping at home. My invite to them still stands. I want to see them pulling weeds and spreading compost. I also want to see them explain to one of my clients, who pays me $5,000 per year to keep his estate lawn, why there is nutsedge and kyllinga popping up through the brown dusty stuff that smells like a barnyard tossed all over his short cut zoysia

[DeepGreenLawn]

lol, I am not a Green Nazi, I have traditional programs available also. The topdress is only done once, maybe twice a year. It takes a little time but the benefits are great. I treat both my neighbor and I hand did not put ANY pre-m down this year. She had 3 weeds total. I had a little more mainly because I cut my lawn with a reel mower. The taller bermuda lawns are able to choke out weeds faster.

I am not trying to dictate, I was just letting you know. I am making money on both sides. And if it smells like a barnyard then something isn't right and shouldn't be put down.

[greendoctor]

I am sure you are not trying to dictate. Lawns come to me in horrible shape. Both my client and I want improvement yesterday. The actual solution for many of them is to subgrade 12-18" and replace the removed material with a sand and compost growing media. I do not apply Pre-M to any lawns that I maintain. My preemergent control is to grow the grass thick and fast to choke out weeds. I do practice IPM, however understand the difference between that and a no chemical policy. In recent years, IPM has become synonymous with no chemicals. As for fertilizers, I am on an all liquid program. It is very similar to what is done on golf greens. It is low rates applied monthly. Warm season grasses do not have many weed problems if they are mowed at their correct height and fertilized for dense growth. For bermuda here, if it is not mowed at less than 1" with a reel mower, it is soon taken over by coarse grasses. I like compost topdressings, but their purpose is to change soil structure and increase moisture retention. It is not to take away fertilizers. My lawn care programs mean I have control over irrigation, mowing height and anything applied to the lawn. If I do not have control over that, either I do not do business or if it is an existing client doing contrary to my advice, client is fired.

[All Season Bill]

Originally Posted by General Grounds

during the past week i have expeirenced 2 price increases from lesco.


if this keeps up im seriously thinkin about passin on the fert and pickin up 50 more lawns.

anyone else startin to feel this way? tony

One of these days if you ever want to sell your company......TGCL or anyone else is not interested in the mowing or the landscaping. Fert customers will add value to your business
and make it more sellable.

[DeepGreenLawn]

Originally Posted by greendoctor

I am sure you are not trying to dictate. Lawns come to me in horrible shape. Both my client and I want improvement yesterday. The actual solution for many of them is to subgrade 12-18" and replace the removed material with a sand and compost growing media. I do not apply Pre-M to any lawns that I maintain. My preemergent control is to grow the grass thick and fast to choke out weeds. I do practice IPM, however understand the difference between that and a no chemical policy. In recent years, IPM has become synonymous with no chemicals. As for fertilizers, I am on an all liquid program. It is very similar to what is done on golf greens. It is low rates applied monthly. Warm season grasses do not have many weed problems if they are mowed at their correct height and fertilized for dense growth. For bermuda here, if it is not mowed at less than 1" with a reel mower, it is soon taken over by coarse grasses. I like compost topdressings, but their purpose is to change soil structure and increase moisture retention. It is not to take away fertilizers. My lawn care programs mean I have control over irrigation, mowing height and anything applied to the lawn. If I do not have control over that, either I do not do business or if it is an existing client doing contrary to my advice, client is fired.

I agree with most everything you said except for the compost replacing fert part. If the compost is a good compost then it will have the nutrients needed to feed the plants. You are probably just missing the little guys who change that compost into the food. Compost, with the good guys, will feed the lawn with an as needed basis. The lawn takes what it needs and the rest waits until it is needed again. It also has great water retention too. Once you get the good guys established they too will help with disease resistance, keep the bad guys out. I love how you are using compost in your programs, get some CT or ICT from Bill down and see what happens. You might be surprised.

Also, I agree that chems have their place. I just don't feel that all the fert is needed, I just feed the plants a different way, as said above.

[greendoctor]

I do not have an agenda, other than providing my clients with a better lawn than the uneducated gardeners or the big "landscaping" companies with their corner cutting and low class work. I do get defensive when my options and choices are being taken away by the GREEN types that will not be affected by their dictates. I do not have much disease problems, because my lawns are fed with a high K and micronutrient solution. The main diseases here are dollar spot,Take All decline, and leaf spot. Starving the grass aggravates these diseases.

[Turfdoctor1]

Originally Posted by greendoctor

I am sure you are not trying to dictate. Lawns come to me in horrible shape. Both my client and I want improvement yesterday. The actual solution for many of them is to subgrade 12-18" and replace the removed material with a sand and compost growing media. I do not apply Pre-M to any lawns that I maintain. My preemergent control is to grow the grass thick and fast to choke out weeds. I do practice IPM, however understand the difference between that and a no chemical policy. In recent years, IPM has become synonymous with no chemicals. As for fertilizers, I am on an all liquid program. It is very similar to what is done on golf greens. It is low rates applied monthly. Warm season grasses do not have many weed problems if they are mowed at their correct height and fertilized for dense growth. For bermuda here, if it is not mowed at less than 1" with a reel mower, it is soon taken over by coarse grasses. I like compost topdressings, but their purpose is to change soil structure and increase moisture retention. It is not to take away fertilizers. My lawn care programs mean I have control over irrigation, mowing height and anything applied to the lawn. If I do not have control over that, either I do not do business or if it is an existing client doing contrary to my advice, client is fired.

do the customers get to walk on it? haha.

wish i could get people to pay me for full maintenance like that! i am lucky to get $300 out of a 1/4 acre, and they don't understand why they have sedge an dallisgrass here and there.

[DeepGreenLawn]

I got dollar spot too. Talk to ICT Bill. He has a product called NPP 123 I believe. It basically disolves the fungus, and everything else in the soil, so afterwards you should apply the ICT 123 to reintroduce the good guys you just wiped out. I have heard a lot of respectable people say the stuff was unbelievable. I plan on ordering myself some this week.

[LIBERTYLANDSCAPING]

Originally Posted by DeepGreenLawn

I got dollar spot too. Talk to ICT Bill. He has a product called NPP 123 I believe. It basically disolves the fungus, and everything else in the soil, so afterwards you should apply the ICT 123 to reintroduce the good guys you just wiped out. I have heard a lot of respectable people say the stuff was unbelievable. I plan on ordering myself some this week.

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