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  #71  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:02 PM
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philk17088 philk17088 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcreech View Post
How can you compare program costs is you bought your "corn meal" last fall to the CURRENT fert price?

That is like me comparing my $11.85 fert from last fall to what is now $22.50 a bag.

What is the cost of corn meal NOW! That is how you can only compare cost/K

BTW, I do mostly 1 acre lawns....and it would take about 800#/lawn....

Do you think my customer would mind me showing up with a semi and a PG?
With corn at $7/bushel corn meal isn't going to be a cost effective source of N. Add on the additional handling, trucking costs, etc you aren't going to make money.
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  #72  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ric View Post
ROTFLMFAO
Ric...that is way too many letters for me to figure out! What?

Organic Dudes,
So you are saying that using fertiilzer with "salts" increase pesticide usage?

Wow! Where do you guys come up with this stuff? What is your reasoning or do I not want to ask?
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  #73  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcreech View Post
Ric...that is way too many letters for me to figure out! What?

Organic Dudes,
So you are saying that using fertiilzer with "salts" increase pesticide usage?

Wow! Where do you guys come up with this stuff? What is your reasoning or do I not want to ask?
rcreech

Please don't ask. Not unlike Scotts the Green People have their own soil Science.

BTW Maybe you understand ROFLMAO Now I am sure can figuire the rest out
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  #74  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:36 PM
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rcreech rcreech is offline
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Originally Posted by philk17088 View Post
With corn at $7/bushel corn meal isn't going to be a cost effective source of N. Add on the additional handling, trucking costs, etc you aren't going to make money.

That is the EXACT point I have been trying to make!

With grain prices up...the by products are in higher demand also.

If you go back several pages you will see the prices I posted of grain by producs from last year to now. They have gone up accordingly just as fert.
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  #75  
Old 07-16-2008, 09:05 AM
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I'm not sure why some people feel that talking about other methods is an "us verses them" issue.

Adding organic matter and microbiology to existing soils is a valuable tool to add to your tool box. There is plenty of science to back this up. Improving soils is a cost effective way to grow healthy plants.

By saying this, I am in no way telling anyone what to do. I am saying that there are certainly other ways to grow grass. And now that the economics are changing, I think it just makes sense to look at these options.

My clients are able to provide beautiful lawns for their clients and are not seeing their product costs rise as much as traditional products are.
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  #76  
Old 07-16-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
I'm not sure why some people feel that talking about other methods is an "us verses them" issue.

Adding organic matter and microbiology to existing soils is a valuable tool to add to your tool box. There is plenty of science to back this up. Improving soils is a cost effective way to grow healthy plants.

By saying this, I am in no way telling anyone what to do. I am saying that there are certainly other ways to grow grass. And now that the economics are changing, I think it just makes sense to look at these options.

My clients are able to provide beautiful lawns for their clients and are not seeing their product costs rise as much as traditional products are.
Phasthound

It is not a matter of Us Vs Them. It is real argronomy vs Green Hocus Pocus. I am a supporter of Organic material and bridge products and understand the value of adding Organic Material to increase SOM which in turn increase CEC and Hydraulic conductivity. In short it can decrease the amount of Synthetic Fertilizer and Irrigation. But you guys carry the Adding Microbes way to far. In the Microbiology world it is a well know fact that Everything is Everywhere and the environment selects which Populations of Micros will populate that environment.

The Problem comes when Green People Fall on their own sword and will not accept compromise. Off Shore Drill is in the News Today. Bush Lifted the ban created by the Green People because of fear it would hurt the sport fishing industry and contaminate Beaches. Yet Louisiana which has Off Shore Drilling has the best Fishing in America and beautiful beaches before the Hurricane washed away the beaches. If we could have taken just a little bit of the Hoot owls Habitat we might have more alternative power plants. Europe is about 90% Nuclear Power plants and we are still Burning Both Oil and Coal.

Work with me and I will work with you But Don't tell me Cracked Corn is an economic way to fertilize my yard. I was born at night, But not last night. Sorry, I didn't go for the save the Wales Crowd in the 1960's and I am going totally Green in the 21th century.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

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  #77  
Old 07-16-2008, 11:12 AM
grassguy_ grassguy_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Phasthound

Work with me and I will work with you But Don't tell me Cracked Corn is an economic way to fertilize my yard. I was born at night, But not last night. Sorry, I didn't go for the save the Wales Crowd in the 1960's and I am going totally Green in the 21th century.
now there's a ROFLMAO! good one RIC, couldn't say it any better! BTW you sure you weren't at the "save the whales" concert, could have sworn you were there. LOL JK
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  #78  
Old 07-16-2008, 11:54 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
In the Microbiology world it is a well know fact that Everything is Everywhere and the environment selects which Populations of Micros will populate that environment.

UUHHH HHHMM, a little general as a statement! wouldn't you agree Ric. If you like I can point out many (if not hundreds) cases where this is not true

and exactly who in "the microbiology world" would you be referring to?

You make this statement often and I have let it go, for some reason it got under my skin today

Quote:
The Problem comes when Green People Fall on their own sword and will not accept compromise.
I do believe the whole industry is termed the GREEN INDUSTRY, so if green people work in the green industry, oh well forget it

I understand your point of view and accept it, no problem. I don't think anyone was trying to jam something down your throat just trying to point out that there is solid science behind this and as fuel/fert costs rise it may be something to look at
If its cost effective and has great results, meaning you keep your customer base, who cares what its made from as long as its registered and safe
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  #79  
Old 07-16-2008, 06:02 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Phasthound

It is not a matter of Us Vs Them. It is real argronomy vs Green Hocus Pocus. I am a supporter of Organic material and bridge products and understand the value of adding Organic Material to increase SOM which in turn increase CEC and Hydraulic conductivity. In short it can decrease the amount of Synthetic Fertilizer and Irrigation. But you guys carry the Adding Microbes way to far. In the Microbiology world it is a well know fact that Everything is Everywhere and the environment selects which Populations of Micros will populate that environment.

The Problem comes when Green People Fall on their own sword and will not accept compromise. Off Shore Drill is in the News Today. Bush Lifted the ban created by the Green People because of fear it would hurt the sport fishing industry and contaminate Beaches. Yet Louisiana which has Off Shore Drilling has the best Fishing in America and beautiful beaches before the Hurricane washed away the beaches. If we could have taken just a little bit of the Hoot owls Habitat we might have more alternative power plants. Europe is about 90% Nuclear Power plants and we are still Burning Both Oil and Coal.

Work with me and I will work with you But Don't tell me Cracked Corn is an economic way to fertilize my yard. I was born at night, But not last night. Sorry, I didn't go for the save the Wales Crowd in the 1960's and I am going totally Green in the 21th century.
Ric,

Call me Barry.

I admit that back in the '60s when I first was learning about organic gardening, much of what was said did sound like hocus pocus. But in the last 15 years or so, with the help of better microscopes and an increased knowledge of the interconnections of microscopic life forms higher life forms, there is a wider understanding of plant health care. To call this hocus pocus, just means you are unaware of how it works.

You have it right when you say, "the environment selects which Populations of Micros will populate that environment." By adding SOM, we make the environment more conducive to the microbes that provide nutrients, disease resistance and greater defenses against insects. By adding beneficial microbes we jump start the system. Now there is a soil environment that supports beneficial microbes and is not conducive to many pathogenic microbes.

Corn gluten is very expensive these days, I don't believe I stated it was not. It is an option for those who chose to use it both as a fertilizer and as a pre-emergent.

Organic based (this means bridge products) fertilizers are very valuable tools that are becoming more cost effective every day. The latest industry reports show that there is still upward pressure globally for more of the raw materials needed to manufacture traditional ferts.

I'm here to talk about fertilizers, not politics
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  #80  
Old 07-16-2008, 06:41 PM
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rcreech rcreech is offline
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Let me get this straight!

We are talking about an economy that is going south and people don't want to spend anymore then they are not for lawncare.

So how do we now go and knock on their door and ask them if they want an ORGANIC program that is 2X their current price and they will have more weeds then every before?

I think I am a pretty good salesman....but I sure aint that good!

Yes syn fert is going up but, but the "organic fert" will go right up with it!

So to me....this isn't about looking to go green and save money....it is just the green boys using their tactics!

I am not saying that adding OM to a lawn won't make it better, I am just saying that people around here won't pay for it therefore I won't be able to sell it! And that is totally fine with me as what I currently do works great both on the farm and in the lawn! It has been proven year after year since the 1930's.

Organic is still trying and to me...not having any luck (around here anyway). We have people that TRY organic around here and you should see their crops. They are lousy! Very lousy looking crop full of WEEDs! So what makes me think it would be any better in a lawn situation?

This is just some food for thougth!
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