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  #21  
Old 07-27-2008, 09:23 PM
AWJ Services AWJ Services is offline
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buy the way...what do you guys think is a fair hourly depreciation rate on track skids? so far the industry has been all over the board regardless of make.... i would appreciate your honest opinions
Before this severe decline in the economy I shopped long and hard for a TL140 in 2006 and the best price I could find for a low hour machine was only 6 or 7 k off of what I paid.
So at that time there value was holding up well.
This year with all the repo's the same machine was 10K plus off of my new price.I would assume all machines wheeled or tracked are down in resale.

If you actually take the time too figure the actual cost of a tired machine and compare it too a tracked machine and tack into account the added ability too work longer and the time saved on common jobs there is no difference.

If you are just going too haul material from point A too point B then a wheeled machine is the best choice.
If you use your machine for actual excavating then the tracked machine will always win.
Of course that is under the conditions I work in and will not always hold true nation wide.
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2008, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by iron peddler View Post
ksss....we know where your alligance is with the power tan.....the key to tracked compact skid frames is knowing how to bill your customers to pay yourself and the machine.....I will not sell a tracked machine to a customer that does not understand the 80-90 per hour for a tracked unit... I am guessing that Ron had the same speech and is charging a similar amount.....just don't quote that number to your customer, just keep it in the back of your mind.....if have that mindset, any tracked skid will work out in the end and make a guy money......


buy the way...what do you guys think is a fair hourly depreciation rate on track skids? so far the industry has been all over the board regardless of make.... i would appreciate your honest opinions.

Certainly I have ties to CASE but honestly I don't view this issue with that in mind. This is not so much a color issue as every nonsuspended machine is basically the same regardless of color. The few machines that I have done the math on (CATs) were in the $25 range. Although I was estimating purchasing price. That is a lot of money at even 100 an hour if you can get that.
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2008, 10:33 PM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by wanabe View Post
I thought one of the big issues was the bearings? Did you check end play?
They now use metal face seals and tapered bearings just like larger dozers and the other CTLs on the market (minus the tapered bearings).
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2008, 11:03 PM
iron peddler iron peddler is offline
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[QUOTE=ksss;2438973]Certainly I have ties to CASE but honestly I don't view this issue with that in mind. This is not so much a color issue as every nonsuspended machine is basically the same regardless of color. The few machines that I have done the math on (CATs) were in the $25 range. Although I was estimating purchasing price. That is a lot of money at even 100 an hour if you can get that.[/QU


you have to take color into the value....tak. vs mustang....i am pushing the tak....case vs nh, i am pushing the case....color is always a consideration, color = dealer support.... i guess my thoughts are that sometimes owner/operators don't pay themselves when they purchase track machines...they seem to forget that a mtl/ctl will outwork a tire machine 2 to 1 in almost every application.
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  #25  
Old 07-28-2008, 02:49 PM
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I was talking to a local landscaper who I have known for many years now, they owned a Cat 267B MTL up until last year, they also knew what they were getting into, but they said the biggest problems with the larger framed Cat's with the ASV U/C on them is the rollers are too close to the out side edge of the track, their outside rollers got chewed up at 600 hours and the track lasted to 1000 hours before they got rid of it.

A buddy of theirs who owns a 247B does a lot of work on the mountain for the big fancy house builders there while working with rock and in the rocks, he is on his second set of tracks and no rollers have been replaced. He's gotten well over 1000 hours out them, and when they were ready for replacement, they were worn down flat, but they were not gouged or ripped.

Anyways, my customer had traded off his 267 for a 246 with the VTS on it, I asked him what he thought of it, he said, "Now that is the worst system we have ever used", they are not seeing an increase in track life nor a better ride, he said they just as "choppy" as the standard CTL's and because they needed a machine in the 72" width category, there just isn't enough track on the ground to keep the wear rate down.

Now they are looking at a new 257B2, they want to go back to the ASV U/C and they like how much bigger and wider the rollers are and the fact that the tracks have the cogs on the outside of the tracks, which will protect the rollers from chipping.

I told him to wait until next month, but they are very gung-ho, they need a machine with a light foot print, it has to travel over paver stones with a full pallet and not vibrate the sh*t out of everything. Go figure.
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  #26  
Old 07-28-2008, 09:57 PM
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BrandonV BrandonV is offline
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we have a 287b and we're rough on it, we replaced our first set of tracks at 1000 hrs, but the the undercarriage/rollers were all fine. we'll probably have to change this second set of tracks out sooner because we've been in MAJOR sharp rocks here lately. but the rollers will probably last till 2000 hrs. my bobcat on the other hand had all the idlers replaced in the first 1000 hrs... so I'm very happy w/ the cat
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  #27  
Old 07-28-2008, 10:29 PM
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I still want to see a harder rubber, But I guess I'll just remain on the edge of my seat until Bair releases their new tracks from DRB.
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  #28  
Old 07-29-2008, 01:30 AM
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Scag48 Scag48 is offline
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ASV definately has figured out a great tread pattern on the tracks, the tracks on Cat/ASV machines are by far the most tractive, IMO. However, I do feel they should be of much higher density rubber so they last longer and can withstand more abuse. C'mon Cat, let's get this done.
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  #29  
Old 07-29-2008, 09:09 AM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by bobcat_ron View Post
I still want to see a harder rubber, But I guess I'll just remain on the edge of my seat until Bair releases their new tracks from DRB.
My dealer told me last year that another company (I think it was Solideal) showed an aftermarket track at a show and ASV kindly let them know through legal channels that they were infringing on multiple patents that ASV has on the track's design. I haven't seen Solideal trying to sell an ASV track so they must have looked into it and figured that it wasn't worth the legal hassle. I'm curious to know if DRB will end up in the same boat or has found a way around the patents.
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  #30  
Old 07-29-2008, 08:51 PM
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DRB's is a much longer gap between track treads, and they are twice as wide, but the tracks look thicker.
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