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Old 08-29-2008, 11:23 AM
jondcoleman jondcoleman is offline
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2009 Fertilizer Program - What do you think?

Attached is a spreadsheet of a work-in-progress 2009 fertilizer program. The prices are from Lesco's website. Please let me know if you have any recommendation for turf quality or to lower the costs.

Here's the basics, see the spreadsheet for details:

Round 1 DIMENSION 0.15% 24-0-11 30%PPSCU at 1.88 lbs. per M
Round 2 DIMENSION 0.15% 24-0-11 30%PPSCU at 1.88 lbs. per M
Round 3 34-0-0 100%PPSCU 5FE at 2.21 lbs. per M
Round 4 SOLU-CAL LIME at 5.00 lbs. per M
Round 5 24-0-11 50%PPSCU 2FE 1MN at 4.17 lbs. per M
Round 6 46-0-0 UREA PRILL at 2.72 lbs. per M

This is just accounting for my granular apps, broadleaf and insecticide will be separate.

Here's the link:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...LRqb4dgpdyIJDw

Thanks for any input you may have.
If you want a copy of the spreadsheet just PM your email address and I will send it to you.

Thanks!

Jon
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:46 AM
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Runner Runner is offline
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WAY too much N going in to the winter. The pre-emergent program is a little on the pricey side,...watch you margins. Personally, I couldn't afford to spread that...let alone twice. Also,..what is with the lime? Who needs it? Who doesn't? How do you know? Also, to have your broadleaf control separate - is ludicrous. Who wants to pay extra for weed control? There is NO way, I would ever tell a potential customer "I'll fertilize your lawn for this much...Oh yeah,...the weed control is extra!"
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Last edited by Runner; 08-29-2008 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:38 PM
jondcoleman jondcoleman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
WAY too much N going in to the winter. The pre-emergent program is a little on the pricey side,...watch you margins. Personally, I couldn't afford to spread that...let alone twice. Also,..what is with the lime? Who needs it? Who doesn't? How do you know? Also, to have your broadleaf control separate - is ludicrous. Who wants to pay extra for weed control? There is NO way, I would ever tell a potential customer "I'll fertilize your lawn for this much...Oh yeah,...the weed control is extra!"
I've seen several people suggest going heavy on the N in the late fall app which the roots will store into the spring. Anybody agree?

What do you put down for pre-emergent and at what rate?
The reason I did the split app like that is because this year the one app in march didn't give me control through July.

As far as I know, almost all of the lawns in this area need lime but I will be doing soil testing for all of my regular clients.

What I meant by the weed control separate is that it wasn't on the spreadsheet, not that I give a separate price to the customer.

Thanks for the reply!
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:29 PM
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lilmarvin4064 lilmarvin4064 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
WAY too much N going in to the winter. The pre-emergent program is a little on the pricey side,...watch you margins. Personally, I couldn't afford to spread that...let alone twice. Also,..what is with the lime? Who needs it? Who doesn't? How do you know? Also, to have your broadleaf control separate - is ludicrous. Who wants to pay extra for weed control? There is NO way, I would ever tell a potential customer "I'll fertilize your lawn for this much...Oh yeah,...the weed control is extra!"
I'd have to disagree. I think the 1.25#N is little much considering none of it's coated, but if it was 20% PCSCU, I'd be fine with it. The dimension product is a fair choice considering it's concentrated (less filler, fewer bags) BUT, I don't like to go less than .35#ai/A on dimension. And at a 1.88# that's too thin, IMO. Your granules will be too far apart resulting in spotty CG control. I wouldn't go less than 3# on a pre-emergent unless you're using a lower SGN.

9 out of 10 of my customers need lime, our course this will vary with location.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:42 PM
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whoopassonthebluegrass whoopassonthebluegrass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondcoleman View Post
I've seen several people suggest going heavy on the N in the late fall app which the roots will store into the spring. Anybody agree?
Your grass roots continue to feed and develop clear up until the ground freezes. To a degree the roots take the carbohydrates and hold them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jondcoleman View Post
What do you put down for pre-emergent and at what rate?
I run liquid Prodiamine at the 3 month rate with my first and third apps. This way I get a full 6 months of coverage, and late signups still get pre-em. In addition, this makes my TOTAL cost for pre-em only $0.50/M . Which is pretty sweet compared to bundled fertilizers.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:52 PM
jondcoleman jondcoleman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmarvin4064 View Post
I'd have to disagree. I think the 1.25#N is little much considering none of it's coated, but if it was 20% PCSCU, I'd be fine with it. The dimension product is a fair choice considering it's concentrated (less filler, fewer bags) BUT, I don't like to go less than .35#ai/A on dimension. And at a 1.88# that's too thin, IMO. Your granules will be too far apart resulting in spotty CG control. I wouldn't go less than 3# on a pre-emergent unless you're using a lower SGN.

9 out of 10 of my customers need lime, our course this will vary with location.
The label on the dimension says a single app in transition zone on high cut turf only requires like .42 # AI so I figured if I split it into two apps of .28 I would have better control. Is that not the case? Thanks!
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2008, 01:53 PM
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LushGreenLawn LushGreenLawn is offline
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I would do your dimension as apps 1 and 3, not 1 and 2. The idea of the split app is to extend your crabgrass control for as much as possible. Your only getting a few more weeks of control the way your doing it. Even if you have some small plants pop up between apps, they will be small enough that the second app will kill them. Dimension does offer post emergent control as long as the plants are small.

You do need a little more AI than your putting down also for our area. I know it means your really kicking up the nitrogen, but round two can be something with little or no nitrogen, with a focus on broadleaf control. Thats how I do it anyway.

Runner, what are you using for crabgrass control? I'm always open to trying new products that are more cost effective and proven.

I understand that you don't need to do it twice, thats a transition zone thing, but the rate he's putting down and the Dimension product he's using is pretty cost effective, its what most people in my area use.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:30 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Location: New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondcoleman View Post
I've seen several people suggest going heavy on the N in the late fall app which the roots will store into the spring. Anybody agree?

What do you put down for pre-emergent and at what rate?
The reason I did the split app like that is because this year the one app in march didn't give me control through July.

As far as I know, almost all of the lawns in this area need lime but I will be doing soil testing for all of my regular clients.

What I meant by the weed control separate is that it wasn't on the spreadsheet, not that I give a separate price to the customer.

Thanks for the reply!

Jon,

2/3rds of Seasons Applied N on cool season turf IN Fall, is Preferred by Professors at University's.

Following this is fine IMO, not to step on Runners toes.

BUT where people mess up and cause Disease issues, Carbohydrate store exhaustion, ect. , is then the following SPRING (before May 1st here) they are applying NITROGEN with their Pre.

If you go heavy with N in the Fall....(I do and urea prill is Very Good with some K), Apply a Pre on a Potassium carrier.....like 0-0-7, ect for APP #1.



OR you can do 5 apps (3.5 lb N annual) like this......(not a late season N plan)

App 1) Less than 1/2 N less than 30% slow
App 2) 1/2 -3/4 N 50% slow
App 3) 3/4 N 50% -75% Slow
App 4) after sept first or passing of dry season) 3/4 N less than 30% slow
App 5) 1 lb N less than 25% slow

Additional Fe,Mn is very good with apps 1 and 4, at the very minimum.

Pete
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:13 PM
jondcoleman jondcoleman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heritage View Post
Jon,

If you go heavy with N in the Fall....(I do and urea prill is Very Good with some K), Apply a Pre on a Potassium carrier.....like 0-0-7, ect for APP #1.

Pete
Do you do that on Rd. 1? If so, do you do a different app for a new customer that didn't have you ferting in the fall? Thanks for all the insight everyone!

Rain, rain, rain here for the past two days! It is great, we were getting pretty dormant...
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:56 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondcoleman View Post
Do you do that on Rd. 1? If so, do you do a different app for a new customer that didn't have you ferting in the fall? Thanks for all the insight everyone!

Rain, rain, rain here for the past two days! It is great, we were getting pretty dormant...
Jon,

When I get a NEW client beginning early spring, they get a soil test when I do their proposal ( I don't give "Free" estimates).....When they say yes, 99% of the time my 1st app is "Starter Fert" and overseed all thin areas......This is how I do it.

Then 2nd app the NEW client, gets Granular Pre-emerge (b-4 forsythia pushes leaves) and a broadleaf "Spot", and only 1/2 lb N AND 1/2 K.

2009 I will go to the 0-0-7 on Pre, for my existing clients, and likely only 4 app program, SO most N will be in the Fall......3-3.5N for the Year.

Pete
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