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  #11  
Old 09-06-2008, 02:03 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Have you read the instructions on all pre-M's, it says the very same thing

Inexpensive is what you meant to say, how much does it cost to fertilize and put down Pre-M at the same time??????? maybe comparable is a better word
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2008, 03:26 PM
rugmankc rugmankc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepGreenLawn View Post
the research typically says that to have a proper dependable response from CGM the product has to be applied over time to build up whatever chem is in it in the soil.

And it's expensive...

Yea, that's what I meant. lol

The articles left me with the impression you had to be careful to get the real stuff and application timing was critical. They definitely seemed to be saying it was not worth the money if only two years left in the house. That was because of price and needing a few seasons to see good results. I don't know if enough companies use it yet to prove or disprove my assumptions. I don't really know. My son isn't sure of how long he will be the house, so a tough decision.


Thanks,

Ken
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2008, 03:52 PM
growingdeeprootsorganicly growingdeeprootsorganicly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post

Inexpensive is what you meant to say, how much does it cost to fertilize and put down Pre-M at the same time??????? maybe comparable is a better word
apples to oranges,
are you talking chem pre'm+fert? to cgm?
there's no comparison in price, not even close!

50lbs cgm covers? 2-4 thou sf? maybe? at 30-50$ a bag

chem prem+fert covers over 10000sf + for 30. a bag

sorry if i miss understood what your saying
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2008, 05:15 PM
DeepGreenLawn DeepGreenLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growingdeeprootsorganicly View Post
apples to oranges,
are you talking chem pre'm+fert? to cgm?
there's no comparison in price, not even close!

50lbs cgm covers? 2-4 thou sf? maybe? at 30-50$ a bag

chem prem+fert covers over 10000sf + for 30. a bag

sorry if i miss understood what your saying
I think he is saying if you bought the two seperate. But like you said, you have to put down so much CGM to get proper coverage and results that putting it down alone seems to be unpracticle. This is the time where I say if it is needed that synthetic chems have their place. Unless someone can show me otherwise...
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2008, 08:33 AM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Maybe Bill hasn't priced CGM vs. say 10-4-2 with Cavalcade, but you would need 4 times the product to apply to a 10k lawn. 5lbs. vs 20lbs. per k.= 4 times the product.

They say it takes 3 years to build up the natural enzyme in the soil to make CGM 80-85% effective. If you scalp your lawn and ***** up your edges, you will get less control as the CGM can't handle that scalping. If you mow around 3 inches (on cool season turf) throughout the year, you generally will be ok. If you have Scalpers Inc mowing at 2 inches every week and have edging that looks like kids coloring couldn't quite stay inside the lines, then the chemical option might be best for you. I'd love to apply CGM to all my lawns, but it's not practical in some situations, including larger lawns. I already have to go over lawns twice and I'm using a PG Magnum. I couldn't imagine pushing lawns twice with a conventional spreader.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:53 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
They say it takes 3 years to build up the natural enzyme in the soil to make CGM 80-85% effective.
Who says this? Is this enzyme resistant to microbial decomposition? Is the enzyme a component of CGM, or is it a microbial byproduct produced during decomposition? Is this enzyme the controlling component/compound, or is it a catalyst? If it is the controlling component/compound, would it not also deter traditional lawn renovation practices (eg. over seeding)?

Compost does a soil good!
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:57 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Who says this? Is this enzyme resistant to microbial decomposition? Is the enzyme a component of CGM, or is it a microbial byproduct produced during decomposition? Is this enzyme the controlling component/compound, or is it a catalyst? If it is the controlling component/compound, would it not also deter traditional lawn renovation practices (eg. over seeding)?

Compost does a soil good!
It is the peptides in the CGM that actually makes it work as a Pre-M. You can get very close to chemical % of control in the first year. It typically has a 10 to 12 week control period

In zone 7 where I am you could put it down in March and again in June and then overseed in September or October and no issues with germination
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
It is the peptides in the CGM that actually makes it work as a Pre-M. You can get very close to chemical % of control in the first year. It typically has a 10 to 12 week control period
Yes Bill. From the second ISU link posted below.
A Petri dish bioassay was used to test the root-inhibiting
activity. Five bioactive dipeptides were isolated by using
Sephadex G-15 gel filtration, solid-phase extraction, and
C18 reversed-phase high-performance liquid chromatography
procedures. The five dipeptides were glutaminyl-glutamine,
alaninyl-asparagine, alaninylglutamine, glycinyl-alanine,
and alaninyl-alanine.
Studies/Articles On Corn Gluten As A Pre-emergent


PATENT: Updated patent

ISU: Greenhouse Screening of Corn Gluten Meal as a Natural Control Product for Broadleaf and Grass Weeds

ISU: Isolation and Identification of Root-Inhibiting Compounds from Corn. Gluten Hydrolysate

ISU: Making its way to the marketplace: A natural product for the control of annual weeds

ISU: Bioactivity of a Pentapeptide Isolated from Corn Gluten Hydrolysate on Lolium perenne L.

ISU: Herbicidal Activity of Hydrolyzed Corn Gluten Meal on Three Grass Species under Controlled Environments

ISU: The Use Of A Natural Product For The Control Of Annual Weeds In Turf

ISU: A natural product for the control of annual weeds (Note: more or less same as previous link)

ISU: The Use of Corn Gluten Meal As A Natural Preemergence Weed Control in Turf

ISU: How To Use Corn Gluten Meal

ISU: Cellular effects in perennial ryegrass (Lolium perenne L.) associated. with the root inhibiting compound alaninyl-alanine

UCD: Evaluation and Demonstration of Corn Gluten Meal as an Organic Herbicide

UWEX: Corn Gluten Meal: A Natural Pre-Emergence Herbicide


Studies/Articles On Natural Products & Methods For Weed Control


UWEX: Corn Gluten Meal and Other Natural Products for Weed Control in Turfgrass

UFL: Preliminary Evaluation Of Nonsynthetic Herbicides For Weed Management In Organic Orange Production

JA-CSSPA: Weed Suppression by Deleterious Rhizobacteria is Affected by Formulation and Soil Properties

JA-CS: Cultural Management of Weeds in Turfgrass: A Review

PATENT: Xanthomonas campestris isolates and methods of use
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  #19  
Old 03-27-2009, 03:23 PM
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grassman177 grassman177 is offline
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kiril. that was the most perfect information. thanks so much. i was dealing with this dilema today in fact and found your post very relative. than ks man!!!!!!
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  #20  
Old 03-27-2009, 07:32 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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Natty, I agree with the PermaGreen and 2+ times the travel to spread CGM right. We use a peletized compost (no weed seeds, high organic matter content) and I am doing 3 laps to spread enough product out to cover the property.
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