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  #31  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:09 PM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
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Now lets look at a company that may be in several states and has 1000's of customers. These are companies that have been around for many years and have certain procedures in place for every task.
Now try to dump a brewer and some compost food stock at the site and transition these folks into an organic program. Good luck
If they cannot handle something sooo simple as this then they have no right to label themselves organic and should not be in business anyway.
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  #32  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:14 PM
Organic a go go Organic a go go is offline
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Bill and JD make excellent points. This isn't a zero sum proposition. For all the whining and complaining people do about Bill's product Tree is just about the only person who has a viable alternative on any kind of viable scale and while that's great its not going to be easily replicated in every circumstance.
ICT was great for me this year but would I love for my own brew to be a feasible option as well? Yep I would, and that's no knock on anyone. Don't be so dogmatic folks.
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  #33  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:33 PM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
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Originally Posted by Organic a go go View Post
Bill and JD make excellent points. This isn't a zero sum proposition. For all the whining and complaining people do about Bill's product Tree is just about the only person who has a viable alternative on any kind of viable scale and while that's great its not going to be easily replicated in every circumstance.
ICT was great for me this year but would I love for my own brew to be a feasible option as well? Yep I would, and that's no knock on anyone. Don't be so dogmatic folks.
Who is being dogmatic? And Treegal is the only person with a viable alternative??? She is doing great but she certainly is not the only one succeeding with ACT as a tool in a natural program; Barefoot James; Dave Tally, Charlie, Matt at Organic Approach to name a few who I know off the top of my head. Two of these folks also use Bill's stuff (I think). I built my first 1200 gallon brewer for under $1000 and was brewing good microbially diverse ACT within 2 weeks, microscopically verified. I also use some specific microbes occasionally in tandemn with ACT and compost but I ferment EM to accomplish this or grow lacto bacillus. There is no dogma only questions and discussion. Some true enough are frustrated by unanswered questions and sales pitches but that is not dogmatic.

I'm glad that Bill's product worked well for you and that you wish to open to more possibilities.
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  #34  
Old 12-31-2008, 08:47 PM
growingdeeprootsorganicly growingdeeprootsorganicly is offline
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Originally Posted by Organic a go go View Post
Bill and JD make excellent points. JMO

happy new year!!

but would I love for my own brew to be a feasible option as well? Yep I would, and that's no knock on anyone.
THEN MAKE IT HAPPEN! "tree's the best" but not the only one working
to make a GOOD product. suck it up and getter done, ask questions to others doing it if you don't know how?

I hope i'm not being dogmatic about?

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
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  #35  
Old 02-04-2009, 11:00 AM
Pristine1 Pristine1 is offline
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Wow, even when you all are arguing, I am able to glean some viable info! Great stuff....now on to figure out how to make worm composting and tea brewing a workable model! Gotta keep reading!!!!
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  #36  
Old 02-08-2009, 12:49 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by Pristine1 View Post
Wow, even when you all are arguing, I am able to glean some viable info! Great stuff....now on to figure out how to make worm composting and tea brewing a workable model! Gotta keep reading!!!!
We aren't aurguing this is normal banter for the forum
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  #37  
Old 02-08-2009, 01:28 PM
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DUSTYCEDAR DUSTYCEDAR is offline
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We r like a big irish family and i have the red hair to prove it.
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  #38  
Old 02-08-2009, 02:59 PM
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Barefoot James Barefoot James is offline
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Missing the point

I think most of the folks here are really missing the point.

Here is the point -

Those with input on this thread (for the most part) know how to make tea.
Tim Wilson - knows how to make tea. Tim has shared some new video showing old casts and biology vs. new casts biology - night and day! New casts have unbelievable life vs. old dried out casts.

Tree knows tea - uses casts that are hours old.

My point is the folks that use a scope and fresh casts probably make great tea. So 50 to 100 folks make great tea - even 1000. Who knows but how many synthetic companies are killing our soil. What is the potential for tea? What are we trying to accomplish with this site or thread. Bottom line is Bill has a "known" make up with proven results. I would imagine most folks have marginal results with their tea at best - I'm not speaking of the experts responding to this thread - but the masses. Most are too scared to even try it (making tea). Why not encourage and build up their entry into this light by helping ICT – they can follow simple mixing directions. Who cares the cost? Especially for newbys.

Is it worth more red tide in the gulf tree?? What are you out doing, besides commenting on this site, doing some classes, helping third world countries grow food, answering PM’s, giving out great advice to those of us that bother you on the phone cause we have got your private cell phone numbers, and, and, and…. Well forget you? LOL (bad – I mean good example) – but Bill is doing it different and both ways mean it is good for the organic industry and for the future) You are doing a ton, but so is Bill cause he has a method/solution/and product, means to reach the masses to change things? Granted we love you to death but give Bill a break! He is doing it – too – just a different way through means of DISTRIBUTION and brick and mortar locations that are in place! I would think at some point his products may end up in the worldwide retail chains and this means MILLIONS of folks exposed to something that does not harm water tables - and goodness. This means real change - quickly!

Good post JD - flip it to the other side. I love all of us - that "Just assume because we are doing the brewing we have great stuff". I have never had my tea tested, who knows if it is great, good or not so great. I have seen some results but I also use Bills stuff - so maybe my stuff sucks - doubt it cause I see the life under a scope (at 24 hours, 36 and 48) - but I also started getting results with JUST ICT before I got a brewer from Tim. Personally I don't know of any of you with exception to Tim and Tree that actually can do tests on their own stuff – besides just looking at it under a scope like me! So who are you to be critical of what Bill is doing. He has tests I have seen the results on paper and on the properties I take care of.

Bill does lots for this site - with sponsorships and his own input to help promote our agenda and learning. This (CT) is a better way so give the guy a break and embrace it for all these newbys that don't know squat about squat. Are we or this site really going to impact the masses to learn how to make quality CT – NO – NO – NO we are not the only way for some CT maker – may as well be Bill to have the money to use to promote it (advertising – sorry t does work). Our educational system of – starting with a 5 gallon pail from Wal-Mart and…. Is just not going to reach the masses – forget it – end of discussion.

Start with ICT and learn from there. I have and it (USE IT) and it works for me. Don’t mean to blow my own horn but I have more organic only properties than 95% of you and I have picked up 50% more clients for 2009. Why??? Referrals - We are doing something right (CT works). Also keep in mind 25% to 40% of my apps are with ICT.

Bill please send $5 to …. LOL – seriously think about the big picture and how can you push CT on a global scale – give Bill a break dudes – like 10 of you (that know how to make tea and are better than me) and… yadda, yadda, yadda, just need to see that your reversing the momentum we have built up by bashing – so Bills stuff does not work for you so move on. Look at the pesticide numbers (of threads) and look at ours – THAT IS OUR OPPORTUNITY! THAT IS THE REAL POINT.

Last edited by Barefoot James; 02-08-2009 at 03:04 PM.
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  #39  
Old 02-08-2009, 03:22 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot James;– seriously think about the big picture and how can you push CT on a global scale – give Bill a break dudes – like 10 of you (that know how to make tea and are better than me) and… yadda, yadda, yadda, just need to see that your reversing the momentum we have built up by bashing – so Bills stuff does not work for you so move on. Look at the pesticide numbers (of threads) and look at ours – [B
THAT IS OUR OPPORTUNITY! THAT IS THE REAL POINT.[/B]
Well said James.

I can't tell you how many people have told me that lawnsite is a waste of time because there is so much bickering between a few people.
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  #40  
Old 02-08-2009, 03:52 PM
Pristine1 Pristine1 is offline
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I have to agree with Barefoot and Phasthound. The bad rap that all of "us" tree huggers have is pretty much our own doing. We are adamant that its our way or the highway, and I can tell you that if I took that approach with any of my clients, they would laugh in my face....actually they wouldn't, they just wouldn't have me back to do more work.

As I've said before, I believe that it is more important to get the chems etc out of our system, but if we are going to convince joe blow office guy that its better, we can't approach him in a "holier than though" way.

Think about the lives they lead....they get up, drag themselves to a cubicle, go to lunch, and then head home. They have heard things on the news etc about organics in food and in the environment, but they have been conditioned by years of strong marketing practices to think that their perfectly green little patch of grass is the American dream. Ya know what, it is! Now we have to applaud and support anybody that is offering an alternative to "Chem Lawn" et. al., and take more of a teacher's attitude, than one of confrontation. I know that I could outsell anybody that walked onto a property with that attitude....even though I have little organic lawn care experience. Its all about my approach and the relationship that I create. (No offense to anybody, I just feel that I know my customers).

So lets continue to work together, share our thoughts and ideas, and improve our environment one property at a time.

(Stepping down off soap box) Now I will go and ask more questions in another thread!
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