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  #61  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:51 PM
jimmy1111 jimmy1111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyD View Post
This may be the worst DIY thread ever..........

Lets all just use twice the 12/2 now on every run since its better and leave it at that.......I myself will stick with 24v systems where I can load my 12/2 to 480watts...you guys can do whatever you want since we now have a new and improved wiring method for 12v!! LOL To be honest, I am still confused by what is posted above........LOL
Joey...For the record....That's an attack from you LOL gotya on this one.

I know you are smart enough to figure that table above...just concentrate on Circuit 3...with the VD measured under 250W & 290W...that's the 13 V Tap....

It is about the principal and advantages to connect two parallel runs - if you can - like when you have runs on each side of a walkway and a chase already installed by others under the walkway at the end...wouldn't you do it after seeing these measurments ??...Hell my VD decreased by at least 2/3 !!!.

Let me put the numbers below so it is easier to see:
12 AWG, 100ft. run, 250 W ====> VD with single run = 6.67 I got 1.712AWG, 100ft. run, 290W ====> VD with single run = 7.73 I got 2.1


Again this is not intended to offend any other way to make a system work.
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  #62  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:04 PM
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JoeyD JoeyD is offline
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I am not offended and I am not trying to attack you. I made a general comment that this thread is terrible.....

I just don't see why you think running 12/2 in parallel is such a great thing?

1. the NEC does not allow it

2. it is a waste of cable

3.It is a million times easier to use a multi tap transformer that does not limit me to 15v so I could go way beyond your limits with 12/2. Better yet I would use 24v and use a single run of 14/2 and still be done with it quicker and cheaper than what you are describing........Your way is inefficient and is a waste of wire, bottom line.

You could have tossed that faulty, outdated, discontinued unit away purchased a new unit for a few hundred bucks wired it up and DONE! Instead you are playing transformer manufacturer repairing this faulty unit and then pulling additional wire runs therefore having to recover wire, make new connections, and then re bury the wire. Your calculations are fine and dandy but that still does not resolve all of this other stuff you had to do to get to where you are. If time is of no concern and K.I.S.S. does not apply to your thought process of proper installation then I could see where you think that what you have done is awesome and great. But for the everyday professional that is doing this for a living, you will never convince him that RUNNING WIRE IN PARALLEL (NOT A LOOP) is easier than doing it the RIGHT WAY.


Sorry if you feel this is an attack, it is just a general K.I.S.S. observation.....Again, I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope your transformer doesn't fail again and cause worse damage next time!
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  #63  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:50 PM
MarkOlex MarkOlex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyD View Post
I am not offended and I am not trying to attack you. I made a general comment that this thread is terrible.....

I just don't see why you think running 12/2 in parallel is such a great thing?

1. the NEC does not allow it

2. it is a waste of cable

3.It is a million times easier to use a multi tap transformer that does not limit me to 15v so I could go way beyond your limits with 12/2. Better yet I would use 24v and use a single run of 14/2 and still be done with it quicker and cheaper than what you are describing........Your way is inefficient and is a waste of wire, bottom line.

You could have tossed that faulty, outdated, discontinued unit away purchased a new unit for a few hundred bucks wired it up and DONE! Instead you are playing transformer manufacturer repairing this faulty unit and then pulling additional wire runs therefore having to recover wire, make new connections, and then re bury the wire. Your calculations are fine and dandy but that still does not resolve all of this other stuff you had to do to get to where you are. If time is of no concern and K.I.S.S. does not apply to your thought process of proper installation then I could see where you think that what you have done is awesome and great. But for the everyday professional that is doing this for a living, you will never convince him that RUNNING WIRE IN PARALLEL (NOT A LOOP) is easier than doing it the RIGHT WAY.


Sorry if you feel this is an attack, it is just a general K.I.S.S. observation.....Again, I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope your transformer doesn't fail again and cause worse damage next time!

Wow. I have never seen Joey break some ones balls like this. Just kidding

It appears after reading this entire thread that everyone has wasted there energy trying to help this misguided DIY'er (LightCraft Rep) to no avail.
We would have an easier time teaching a fish to breath out of the water.
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  #64  
Old 01-28-2009, 03:08 PM
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JoeyD JoeyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkOlex View Post
Wow. I have never seen Joey break some ones balls like this. Just kidding

It appears after reading this entire thread that everyone has wasted there energy trying to help this misguided DIY'er (LightCraft Rep) to no avail.
We would have an easier time teaching a fish to breath out of the water.
Thanks for trying to fan the flames Mark!!! LMAO
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  #65  
Old 01-28-2009, 03:18 PM
jimmy1111 jimmy1111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyD View Post
RUNNING WIRE IN PARALLEL (NOT A LOOP) is easier than doing it the RIGHT WAY.

If i'm not mistaken what you meant by runing Paralell is conection one wire of the fixture to leg and the second wire of the fixture to the other leg......that would have been a miserable installation and huge nightmare..I agree.

I don't think my runs are Parallel...they are not even in the same trench...they were installed 2 years ago and ran fine...till the other problem with the faulty connections inside my Trans. came up...than I started questioning everything and started this Thread.

What I meant by LOOP is that one leg is on one side of the walkway and the other leg is on the other side of the walkway...but yet it is one 12/2 that starts from the Trans. out on one side of the walkway for a 100 ft. than turns back under the walkway to the second side of the walkway and back to the same tap in the Trans. without even one connection and there are stagered light fixtures on each side of the walkway...Is that really parallel ??
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  #66  
Old 01-28-2009, 03:32 PM
jimmy1111 jimmy1111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkOlex View Post

It appears after reading this entire thread that everyone has wasted there energy trying to help this misguided DIY'er (LightCraft Rep) to no avail.
We would have an easier time teaching a fish to breath out of the water.
LOL...I wish I was a light craft guy...I wouldn't be fighting to keep my VISTA Trans.

BTW Mark... that fish is not looking to breath out of the water...just wondering why being stuck in a small cage underwater...when it can get a 3 times bigger cage.
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  #67  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:41 PM
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JoeyD JoeyD is offline
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A traditional loop would be where you pull an addtional wire from the last light on the run to the first light on the run....what you are doing is some wierd daisy chain hybrid loop.......Different then what I understood you to be doing but still nothing I would promote. Servicing would be a nightmare for ayone but you, polarity is now in play, and you still have inconsistant voltage being distributed to every lamp. Either way you got it all figured out.......
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  #68  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:44 PM
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TXNSLighting TXNSLighting is offline
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good ole daisy chainin at its finest!
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  #69  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:54 PM
klkanders klkanders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyD View Post
A traditional loop would be where you pull an addtional wire from the last light on the run to the first light on the run....
Joey,
I think this is called a lollipop loop if I remember correctly?

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  #70  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:52 PM
SamIV SamIV is offline
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From what I have read, he has installed a loop system where the run makes a complete loop back to the transformer. As long as he keeps polarity the same, this should work. From what I have read, you are essentially stepping up to the next size wire. From 12 to 10, not 8 gauge.

I have never installed using this method but the professor on another forum lives by this. Lollipop is where you loop back to the first fixture and not back to the transformer. The loop method does work, but you have to cut the mainline every time you need to wire in a fixture unless you use pierce points, and lets not go there. Way too many connections for me.

Burt Wilson
Accent Outdoor Lighting
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